WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => Outdoors => Topic started by: lynnc on Jun 09, 08, 08:38:22 PM
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Today two friends and I were hiking on Blue Ridge trail. My friend had her two bulldogs with her (she did not have them on a leash - she had forgotten it). A woman was coming down the trail with eight loose dogs!! She went off trail and tried to hold her dogs. Well, as you can imagine, it didn't work. One of the dogs, a chow-retriever mix, attacked one of the bull dogs. Grabbed it by the back of the neck and was shaking it. They both went over the side and were sliding down the mountain. My friend went chasing after them and was able to get the dogs loose. We were screaming at the woman - are you crazy? What are you doing hiking with 8 loose dogs? She never said a word. Did not apologize or ask how the dog was. She just left.
Does anyone have any idea who this woman is?
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Can you describe her? I may know.
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I barely looked at her - too busy trying to separate dogs. Reddish blond hair - mid 40's?
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Well to be fair, she was no more in the wrong for 8 loose dogs than your friend was for 2.
All dogs in the forest are required to be on a leash at all times.
As a former SAR member I have been involved in many dog rescues, where dogs go over the side and are either injured or killed in falls. Leashes are not only important for the safety of hikers but also for the dogs.
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Is her dog okay? Did it have to go to the vet?
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Sorry to hear about her dog, I hope everything is okay with him. but this little law also applies to FLUME CYN RD. When you walk your dog!!! Just because we are pushed to the outside of town over a diffrent county line, DOESN'T MEAN YOUR DOG IS SPECIAL AND THIS DOESN"T APPLY!! Wake up people!! >:( Put them on a leash!
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LA County
The Leash Law: It is not permissible to let your dog run at large day or night, with or without a license (County Code Title 10, Section 10.32.010).
San Bernardino County Leash Law
San Bernardino County law (Code: 32.0108 Control of Animals) requires all animals to be restrained whenever they are on public property or unenclosed private property.
A person having custody of any dog shall not permit, either willfully or through failure to exercise due care or control, any such dog to defecate or urinate upon a public street or sidewalk; the floor of any common hall in any apartment house, hotel, or other multiple dwelling; upon any entrance way, stairway, or wall immediately abutting on a public sidewalk; or upon the floor of any theater, shop, store, office building, or other building used by the public.
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I just love folks who walk down the roads of our great village without a waste bag, and have their pet leave gifts next to our homes.
Perchance, if I knew their homes I might just like to come by and have my Mastiff leave a gift.
Share and share alike.
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I agree about the leashes, but 8 dogs is over the top. The max number of dogs per household allowed in SB county is 3!!
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I agree about the leashes, but 8 dogs is over the top. The max number of dogs per household allowed in SB county is 3!!
You can have up to four dogs before you are required to have a kennel license. At five or more dogs you are required to get a kennel license and find no limitation in on how many dogs a kennel may have.
So you can easily have more than three dogs. That was a very quick read of the county code so if you can find something disputing that please post it.
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Okay Clint, I accepted your challenge and called Animal Control and Code Enforcement. The number of dogs and/or cats is determined by lot size. Up to 7200 sq ft - 2 animals. 7200 - 9,999 sq ft - 3 animals. 10,000 to 19,999 sq ft - 4 animals.
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Excellent! It was not a challenge. One problem with the County Code web site is that it is not updated and lots of info there is wrong. So thanks for taking the time to get the details. Good to know!
And that makes sense actually, that it would be based on lot size.
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That's probably why the animal control officer stated (at the WWPOA meeting) that most properties in Wrightwood are only allowed 2.
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Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and doing trails with your dogs off leash. I hiked with 4 dogs off leash today up at INSPO and had a blast. Did not see anyone with 8 dogs. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only have dogs off leash who are socialized!
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Uh...NO. There is no "key" here. The ONLY thing to do here is OBEY THE REGULATIONS. Did I miss a sentence in the forest service rules where it says "...must be on leash, unless in your own opinion your dog is properly socialized"?
This is the same mentality that causes people to trespass and ride dirt bikes through peoples yards.
In a civilized society we don't get to pick and choose which rules we obey.
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Uh yeah....that is the key here...
When people talk about a possible dog park being built everyone freaks out and points out all the open forest in back of us to run them in. When people use the open forest they say they want them to be on a leash. I don't want to hike with my dogs on a leash. They don't need to be on them.
I don't feel this is the same mentality that causes trespassing and riding dirtbikes through peoples yards. I don't feel that I am trespassing on Mother Nature and I sure as heck don't let my dogs run into peoples yards!
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Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and doing trails with your dogs off leash. I hiked with 4 dogs off leash today up at INSPO and had a blast. Did not see anyone with 8 dogs. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only have dogs off leash who are socialized!
Really... you have total control of four dogs off leash? And then when the other 8 dogs off leash come across you on a mtn trail you still have total control ? We will call you the dog wisperer.
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Sagebrush, what would you have done with four dogs off leash if you had run into the woman with eight dogs off leash? It only takes one dog who is not "socialized" to cause a major problem. My friend (whose dog was attacked) is a vet. Every night she works the emergency clinic, she stitches up dogs that have been attacked by other dogs. The problem is the "pack" mentality. Once one dog starts attacking, others tend to join in. You need to think twice about walking dogs off the leash. I can guarantee my friend learned her lesson. And she said she is only going to hike with one dog at a time. Even if she had both dogs on leashes, if one had been attacked and dragged down the hill (like what happened), what would she have done with the other dog?
You seem to think this is not important and you implied there was no one out there with eight dogs. Well, yesterday there was. And tomorrow she might be out there again. So use your brains and protect your dogs. Oh, and don't break the law! You have to have your dogs on a leash in the national forest and in the county. Just because we live in the mountains, people seem to have the mentality "it doesn't apply to me". And that is just wrong.
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We would have done what we always do when we run into off leash dogs on that trail... Let them meet and greet eachother. Im not saying this lady should be walking off leash with aggressive dogs, in fact Im saying the opposite. I do think this is important and the lady should be confronted. Please don't put words in my mouth as to what I might feel. All I said was that I didn't see her! Not that you were wrong...
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Really... you have total control of four dogs off leash? And then when the other 8 dogs off leash come across you on a mtn trail you still have total control ? We will call you the dog wisperer.
Actually yes....My dogs listen very well. Im the pack leader, not them, so I set the pack mentality. If I have to deal with an aggressive dog then I will.
Call me what you will discombubulated....you must have just figured out what I do for a living... ;)
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Here we go again, discussing for 5 or 6 pages what should be COMMON SENSE!!
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And I was just trying to figure out who the woman was!
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This is precisely the same mentality that causes illegal trespass.
People thinking htey are above the law or the laws don't apply to them.
I just hope you same folks who openly promote ignoring the law don't have any kids to pass
your ideas on to.
Is it okay to kill someone because you decide they are bad and that law does not apply to you? Because you know better?
And BTW I would fully support a dog park here just to curb this problem. That makes WAY more sense that a skateboard park. It would serve more of the community.
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You mentioned it, there are no plans for just a skate board park. Last year we started plans for a general park (dogs welcome, on leashes) that include a skate park area. There are no plans for just a skate board park!
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You all think you have it so bad!
I have a dog who likes to ride a skateboard without a leash.... I have nowhere to go..... :'( :violins: :violins:
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You all think you have it so bad!
I have a dog who likes to ride a skateboard without a leash.... I have nowhere to go..... :'( :violins: :violins:
The worst kind! I bet you were a dog without a leash when young. ;D
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We would have done what we always do when we run into off leash dogs on that trail... Let them meet and greet eachother.
Sagebrush, I can't image how you can assume that ALL loose dogs are going to meet and greet each other and get along. I was walking my dog on a leash in Pinon Hills and he was "greeted" by two other dogs. There was some sniffing and a little hair raising, and then a 3rd dog came up and started fighting. Then all three of those dogs attacked my dog and literally pulled him out of his collar. I was standing there holding an empty leash and there was nothing I could do.
Fortunately the owner came running out and pulled his dogs apart. My dog had to have surgery, but fortunately he's fine now.
Do you realize how terrifying it is for me/my dog now when we are walking and there are loose dogs? We don't know what they are like and can never assume they are socialized. Even socialized dogs can attack in a pack.
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Is it okay to kill someone because you decide they are bad and that law does not apply to you? Because you know better?
How can you equate murder with walking dogs off leash? ::) Are you kidding me? A bit dramatic.....
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Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and doing trails with your dogs off leash. I hiked with 4 dogs off leash today up at INSPO and had a blast. Did not see anyone with 8 dogs. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only have dogs off leash who are socialized!
See if these examples make any more sense.
Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and building campfires where we want to and when we want to. I built a great one today to cook lunch today up at INSPO and had a blast. Did not see anyone else cooking their lunch. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only have fires that are friendly to Mother Nature!
???
Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and shooting our semi-automatic weapons. I hiked today up at INSPO and had a blast knocking pine cones off those old, knurled looking trees. Did not see anyone with a rifle more powerful then mine. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only shoot your high powered rifle when no one will catch you!
I guess being the Alpha means you can ignore things the rest of us pay attention to.
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How can you equate murder with walking dogs off leash? ::) Are you kidding me? A bit dramatic.....
Dramatic...NO....the law is the law, rules are rules.... abide by the rules/law or suffer the consequences. Like it or not. It doesn't matter if it it riding bikes, driving, murder, theft, walking dogs without a leash.
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Oh man, here we go again ::). But I guess I'll throw my :2cents: in as well and get bashed for it too . . . . Warning - I have not taken hours to think of my response or the correct way to say it so I will ramble . . .
As a teen, we took my parents' dogs to the foothills and let them run to their hearts content quite often. Very well behaved animals - came when called back and got along with any other animals we ran into (except chickens, but that's another story). Whether legal or not, we did it. If it wasn't for those long runs, my parents' huskies would not have stayed in their yard during the week. The few times we did come across anyone with another dog, we made sure ours came back to us and we would stay with them until the other animal had gone. Each owner was responsible for keeping their own animal under control. That was a given. The same goes for when the dogs are in the front yard "off-leash". They know their boundaries and when they have to stay with my parents. Never a bad off-leash experience.
My own dogs are pretty socialized - might be scared of people and certain places, but they love other dogs. They are not however good on leashes - comes from having an owner with 3 toddlers trying to help walk them I suppose. They are great off leash when in familiar territory or with familiar people. So if we happen to be someplace that is wide open with no people, I have no problem taking them off their leashes. If it's against the law - then it is my choice to break that law and suffer the consequences - just like any other criminal. For example when we go off-roading, my dogs will wander around where ever we stop for lunch. If I walk them on their leashes, it could take 30 minutes before they'll actually relieve themselves, but if I let them go on their own - it's only seconds. I actually have never had a ranger tell me to leash them either - the opportunity has presented itself though.
Having said all that, I don't think I'd be hiking with 8 dogs by myself anyway. I barely hike, let alone with my dogs. 8 would be out of the question. I also would hope that the owner would have more common sense - if you have an aggressive dog, you don't let them off leash. That lady was just plain stupid. And anything that happened as a result is her fault. But I can't condemn every single person who hikes with their dogs off leash. Walking in a neighborhood with lots of people around, yes that shouldn't happen - but in the middle of nowhere? It's not the end of the world. We're NOT talking forest fires or gunfire or murder, we're talking about walking dogs - let's not exaggerate and make this such a huge deal. I understand an animal was hurt and that owner is upset - I'm upset it happened too - the situation could have been avoided. But I'm not going to throw blanket statements out there either that all dogs do not get along and should all be restrained at all times. My dog being on a leash is not going to protect MY dog if another is aggressive. It's the aggressive dog who should have been restrained in the first place - that's common sense.
Ok go ahead and pick apart my whole post in tiny little sections and tell me I'm a horrible dog owner and how much I break the law and promote doing so. Let me block my head with my arms - ok go . . . .
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See if these examples make any more sense.
Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and building campfires where we want to and when we want to. I built a great one today to cook lunch today up at INSPO and had a blast. Did not see anyone else cooking their lunch. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only have fires that are friendly to Mother Nature!
???
Come on people.....We all know that one of the joys of living in WW is hiking and shooting our semi-automatic weapons. I hiked today up at INSPO and had a blast knocking pine cones off those old, knurled looking trees. Did not see anyone with a rifle more powerful then mine. I think I would have remembered that!!
The key here is to only shoot your high powered rifle when no one will catch you!
I guess being the Alpha means you can ignore things the rest of us pay attention to.
Actually Wildman...those examples don't make any more sense, because you are equating firearms and possibly burning down an entire town/forest to walking a dog off the leash. ::)
Dramatic...NO....the law is the law, rules are rules.... abide by the rules/law or suffer the consequences. Like it or not. It doesn't matter if it it riding bikes, driving, murder, theft, walking dogs without a leash.
The law is not the law! Thats why there are distinguishing punishments for different ones. Misdemeanors and felonies are quite different just as walking a dog off leash and murdering someone is! Black and white is not the way to look at it...If you guys are so worried about it maybe you should hike the trails and write citations or do the citizens arrests you seem to be so eager to do. In the meantime, we (and by we I mean a good amount of people in this town) will continue to hike our trails with our dogs off leash and have no problems...
Some of you talk about a pack mentality......pot-kettle-black perhaps?
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Here is a picture of Hillbilly's dog (the one on the skateboard with out the leash). Sort of looks like Bob! Hate to see this on a trail.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d180/chuck3195/ResizeofChilicousinr.jpg)
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I saw a dog off leash today! :o
It was my own dog, so I did not go screaming call 911, flailing my arms in the air, while running down the trail. ;D
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Here is a picture of Hillbilly's dog (the one on the skateboard with out the leash). Sort of looks like Bob! Hate to see this on a trail.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d180/chuck3195/ResizeofChilicousinr.jpg)
OMG that needs to be leashed for sure!!!
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I think I dated him once.
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It is good to be light-hearted about this issue.
But, I was walking my dog about 6 months ago on leash - another dog off leash ran toward us in the street - my dog bolted to meet the other dog and put me off balance - I sustained serious and very painful facial injuries from the fall when my head hit the pavement.
Please keep all dogs on leash so no one will be injured.
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There is a difference between a loose dog on the street and a loose dog on the trails. Noone should walk dogs without a leash on residential streets that does not have absolute control. Ive seen people that DO have that kind of control but it is rare.
My dogs on the trail are having the time of their lives. I would never take that away from them. They are well behaved, large active dogs who need to run. This helps them in their everyday life.
To say that a dog fight might possibly occur when walking on the trails is the same as saying that you might get into an accident when driving to the post office, ect. We can do the "what if" game all day long. When it comes down to it.....We see off leash dogs on various trails almost 2-3 times weekly and there has NEVER been an issue. There has always seemed to be an unwritten understanding between all of us that hike up there that the dogs are off leash- non aggressive. My dogs love other dogs and are submissive and will permit a more aggressive dog to prove its point and move on. Yet, we have never run into that while hiking up here.
And by the way Wildman.....being Alpha doesn't mean that I get to ignore the things that the rest of you seem to get so upset about, it simply means that I understand dogs more than you... ;)
This forum seems to be a place where people like to gloat about how much they follow the rules, never speed or run a stop sign, or break any other rule. If I am the one who will suffer a ticket for walking my dogs off leash why does it bother you people so much? I will accept my punishment from all the rangers (who wave and drive past me every time they see me and often times chat with us) when the time comes. In the meantime, lighten up, and quit trying to prove to everyone how perfect you are.
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Can't believe I'm responding to this thread let alone reading it....! How about taking along a BIG stick or pepper spray to fend off a miscreant dog or wild animal. One should do this any time yer out walking in the forest, with or with out yer pet.
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Here is a picture of Hillbilly's dog (the one on the skateboard with out the leash). Sort of looks like Bob! Hate to see this on a trail.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d180/chuck3195/ResizeofChilicousinr.jpg)
YIKES!!!! It does look like Bob! ;D
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To say that a dog fight might possibly occur when walking on the trails is the same as saying that you might get into an accident when driving to the post office, ect.
Sagebrush, a dog fight did happen while we were walking on the trail. You seem to be disregarding that fact.
Angelwolf, in reply to your kind concern about the dog, thanks for asking, and yes it was seen by a vet and she is fine. (the dog, not the vet. Well, the vet is fine also!)
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I understand that a dog was attacked on the trail. Im not disregarding that. Again you are putting words in my mouth. I think the lady needs to be dealt with. Why did you not follow her and get a license plate # or further info?
You seem to preach alot about hiking dogs off leash and people thinking they are above the law because they live in the mountains when you were walking your dogs off leash a few days ago. If you and your friend cannot control the 2 bulldogs then you shouldn't be hiking off leash. But please dont preach to me about something your guilty of yourself. My dogs follow my commands. If they didnt they would not be off leash.
I wish no dog to be harmed while enjoying a nice walk. Anyone that knows me knows how much I love animals. But I just dont agree that dogs need to be leashed even when in the forest. Agree to disagree but dont imply that I disregard an attack as unimportant just because you and your friend could not gain control of 2 dogs. Its your own fault in my opinion. When we hike Ive got a few tools in case of an attack from ANY animal and I never hike alone. If you would have been prepared you would have been fine. What would you have done of the bulldogs encountered a bear or a mountain lion? In my opinion its natures way of warning you to help you guys wise up as to what hiking in the forest entails.....
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I hate to be persnickity, but Pinetrees, your dog was the cause of your injury. YOU didn't have YOUR dog under control.
Your leashed dog caused your injury.
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Sagebrush.....What tools exactly?
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I hate to be persnickity, but Pinetrees, your dog was the cause of your injury. YOU didn't have YOUR dog under control.
Your leashed dog caused your injury.
Once again I will clarify....walking a dog off leash in a residential area and on a trail are 2 entirely different things. I guess you missed that the first time I said it... ;)
Sagebrush.....What tools exactly?
Kimy there are many different tools to help you while out in nature. It doesnt matter which ones I use as everyone should pick the tools for themselves that put them at ease while out in the wilderness. Its a combination of security and mentality. When the owner is comfy then they pass that secure feeling along to the dog. The dogs follow OUR lead..not vice versa. We are in control of the situation!
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There is a difference between a loose dog on the street and a loose dog on the trails.
When it comes down to it.....We see off leash dogs on various trails almost 2-3 times weekly and there has NEVER been an issue.
If I am the one who will suffer a ticket for walking my dogs off leash why does it bother you people so much? I will accept my punishment from all the rangers (who wave and drive past me every time they see me and often times chat with us) when the time comes.
We encounter people walking their dogs without leashes all the time while patrolling Blue Ridge and Table Mountain. It has never really been an issue. As our rig approaches the owners have always demonstrated control of their animals by commanding them to stop, sit or come back to them and we will often chat with them about their dogs. Only once have we, my partner and I, asked an owner to leash their dog. I have never seen or encountered a situation such as the one that started this thread. If there was more foot traffic and we saw the potential for problems, we would ask more people to leash their animals.
Speaking for myself, I'm more concerned with dogs running loose in campgrounds or parking areas where they may be a nuisance to the public or in danger of being hit by a car. Of course I'm just a volunteer. The paid USFS Rangers, FPO Officers or LEOs out of Big Pines or Area 12 may not be as forgiving or lenient.
I believe there is some confusion as to the leash law in the Angeles National Forest. Dogs are not required to be on a leash anywhere in the National Forest. Only if they are on trails, in campgrounds, parking lots, or other areas where the public congregates. I suppose "technically" if you were walking along the trail but your dog was running all over the mountain side, you wouldn't be in violation of the leash law.
In those areas described above dogs are required to be restrained by a leash of no longer than 6 feet. Violation of Section 261.8 Fish and Wildlife (d), "possesing a dog not on a leash or otherwise confined", is a $50 fine. [Title 36 - Parks, Forest and Public Property Chapter II - Forest Service, Department of Agriculture Part 261 - Prohibitions]
It is also "technically" illegal to remove snow or pinecones from the National Forest. I know for a fact that nobody with the USFS out of Big Pines, either Paid or Volunteer, has hassled anybody about that. ;D
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In a civilized society we don't get to pick and choose which rules we obey.
but we do pick and choose... and that's exactly why a lot of folks drive over the posted speed limit.