WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => Wrightwood CSD Topics => Topic started by: CaptureCom on Aug 12, 16, 12:17:04 PM
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Click on image below for the Wrightwood CSD poll
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/WW.CSD.Poll.9.2.16.jpg) (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=57c8df68e4b08bcfc1275f1a)
NOTICE:
WRIGHTWOOD CSD COMMUNITY MEETING
TUESDAY, AUGUST 30th 6:00PM
Wrightwood Community Center
Representatives from the 1st District and LAFCO will be in attendance
Wrightwood CSD Feasibility Committee
wrightwoodCSD@gmail.com
This opportunity just came together in the last 24 hours. This will be the perfect time to ask your questions regarding the proposed Wrightwood CSD. In case you haven't read or studied the Proposal, here's a link to the entire briefing/proposal that was presented by LAFCO to the Board on the 20th of July. http://www.sbcounty.gov/uploads/LAFCO/AgendaNotices/20160720/Item_9.pdf (http://www.sbcounty.gov/uploads/LAFCO/AgendaNotices/20160720/Item_9.pdf)
This Proposal is the only valid document related to a Wrightwood CSD. If it is not contained in this package, it is not a part of the proposed Wrightwood CSD Proposal that will be voted on in March 2017. Many people are still studying the Feasibility Study and other artifacts that have been a part of the path to date, but none of the old products are valid. Once the County Supervisor took this idea forward, followed by LAFCO performing research and analysis, the only document in play is the LAFCO Proposal (use the link above). In that Proposal, LAFCO has expanded the boundaries from what was submitted in the Feasibility Study. Additionally, they have modified the notional budget from the Feasibility Study with numbers they feel are more appropriate. And they also expanded the Wrightwood CSD Powers to include Wastewater Planning and Engineering. All three of these topics are captured in detail in the Proposal. Study this Proposal and formulate questions that trace back to this Proposal. A LAFCO representative will be at this Public Meeting to answer your questions.
Tell your friends and neighbors about the meeting. Please plan on attending.
Patrick Stewart
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Bump... looks like it might be a very well attended meeting. :2thumbsup:
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12 meg MP3 Audio of Wrightwood CSD Meeting Aug 30th, 2016 (http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/CSD/WW.CSD.8.30.16.Meeting.MP3)
Notes:
It's best to download file to your Hard Disk then play
The 12 meg MP3 file is 1:40 minutes long
A few audience questions/comments were low audio and were increased but may still be low.
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I'll preface with something I wrote once before: I don't do meetings. Or watch videos of meetings. I decide based on whatever arguments I can read...in this forum or elsewhere.
Wastewater reclamation has been added to the scope of the CSD...cool. That sounds like the question of a parcel tax for a sewer system (for at least the downtown business district) may be in a future election.
I have a question: once a CSD is formed, does its elected board have the power to place a tax or bond question on a ballot?
Thanks in advance for any illumination.
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Wastewater reclamation has been added to the scope of the CSD
That is not a correct statement after listening to the audio.
It only includes wastewater planning and engineering powers if sewers were deemed necessary by the Lahontan Regional Water Quality Control Board in the future.
If the Lahontan Regional Water Quality Control Board requires sewers and the CSD does not pass then the current CSA56 is responsible for wastewater planning and engineering powers.
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Sorry for my incorrect semantics...my point was that the CSD's scope once was simply street lights, solid waste, and parks. Wastewater was recently added.
I'm also sorry that I don't fully understand your reply. Suppose the mysterious (to a normal person) "Lahontan Regional Water Quality Control Board" DECIDES sewers are required. Do the backhoes simply start digging, or do we get a vote? Does the CSD or CSA 56 board make the decision what questions do or do not go on the ballot? How does a tax parcel question appear on the ballot in such a case?
Thanks.
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It's too bad you don't like to hear the information directly from the source, the meetings are actually fun and a great way to be involved in the community! (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/Smileys/classic/2thumbsup.gif)
Wastewater was added on July 20 by the LAFCO board because the creation of the CSD would dissolve CSA 56 and the only function left over under the jurisdiction of CSA 56 would be sewer powers (planning and engineering). The LAFCO board felt that CSA 56 should not remain in existence just to hold sewer powers (planning and engineering), and that the people of Wrightwood would be the best people to actually have a voice in sewer planning and engineering should that ever be necessary. (It is not currently necessary, the nitrate levels in our soil are the criteria the water board looks at for even starting a discussion about a new plan for wastewater management beyond what we already have (individual on site systems) and they are currently at 1 out of 10, golden state water is the agency that is responsible for testing the levels annually and that is public information and can be found on golden state's website.) Additionally, there is no mandate to have sewers in Wrightwood, in 2012 the state placed the burden of coming up with a wastewater management plan on the county and that plan has to be created by May 2018 - that does not mean there is an implementation component, just a plan. If the CSD were in existence then Wrightwood would have the authority to send an elected representative from Wrightwood to participate in the discussion regarding any sewer plan. I for one would rather have a seat at the table than sit and wait to hear what they come up with.
Yes, you would have a vote.
I hope that helps, sorry if it was wordy.
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Cheapskate.. You raised a good question. I do think S. Carroll answered it for you. I'll expand a bit here. If the Lahontan Regional Water Quality Board does decide that sewers.. in lieu of septics.. are needed. The question will be: "Do you want to have a measure of local control over the how and the when? Or, do you want to cede that local control to a far-off entity. Local control makes a heck of a lot of sense to me.
The issue of septics and the leaching into ground water is statewide. Actually, it's a country wide issue. There was a discussion of the issue on this forum back when the Evergreen had some septic problems. There is good background information on septics in that discussion. I called the County and the Lahontan Board myself. The County Engineer told me then that WW has a high, water-table. Thus, leach lines are an issue. He also told me that WW hadn't been re-mapped in a good long time. I don't know if that has changed since that conversation. The problem for the Evergreen was ultimately resolved.
The State of CA Water Quality Control Board is the big Kahuna on these issues. Water is a major issue in CA. It has been since long before the drought. So, as a normal person, I recommend you acquaint yourself with those powers that can impact you. They're like the Board of Equalization. They have so much power and nobody pays attention to them until they have to pay attention.
Whether a mandate for sewers only affects the downtown area or a larger area of WW is going to be an issue regardless of whether it's controlled by a local CSD or the County CSA. Myself, I would vote for sewers here in P.H. in a nano-second. Unless they would want to run the line through my rose garden. Then I would negotiate and likely wind-up moving the rose garden.
Cheapskate.. As much as you dislike meetings .. at least you'd have the option of a meeting in WW. I don't see the issue coming to 'a head" in the near future. But, it is "bubbling up" on the horizon. I'm loving these puns. cheryl o7o
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Requires Google Account:
August 30th, 2016, Wrightwood CSD meeting, with presentation by LAFCO staff Minutes: (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5J8Ta1k-_IORjBDbklwZ1BOSEU)
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for some reason I cannot access the minutes of the meeting...It could be my computer. Would you be able to post them here or are they too large?
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PDF Format
August 30th, 2016, Wrightwood CSD meeting, with presentation by LAFCO staff Minutes: (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/LAFCO.PublicMeetingAug30.2016.pdf)
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Click on image below for the Wrightwood CSD poll
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/WW.CSD.Poll.9.2.16.jpg) (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=57c8df68e4b08bcfc1275f1a)
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There is a Q & A in the week's MP from the meeting. It may be a repeat of the minutes posted here previously. cheryl o7o
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I may not fully understand, but no one seems to be asking where the money is coming from to support this new creation of a WW board, and dissolving of said current one. I get that local control seems better, but it seems to me, the businesses seem to be pushing this more than residence. I remember the Evergreen problem, smiled to myself and said, now the businesses are going to push for a sewer system, great, but only to find out for the businesses only? Partially, not the entire town! Why should I as a property owner in WW be willing to help pay for the business to get a sewer when we can't all benefit? I can't help the county put restriction on their systems! They are on mine too! So, if I understand, which I may not, this new board that would take over wants local control to get a partial sewer, parks and rec, and lighting? Ok, but not at the expense of another tax, that will only go up over time, and it will not benefit the entire town. From my perspective, I have to pay for my septic system on my own, plus they want us to help pay for a business system too? Stating that some time off in the future I may get a sewer system, if I live long enough, off on the Harrison? No thanks! If it can't include all of us,
No thanks, please clarify if I misunderstand.
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Dear Dean-Burdi,
Businesses are not all who are behind the Wrightwood CSD The key person who started this has also started The Walking School Buss, The Wrightwood Co-op Produce Group and The Wrightwood Certified Farmers Market. All of which benefit our community and are being operated by outstanding community members.
You have asked about funding the Wrightwood CSD and board members. These questions were asked, researched, and addressed. You can verify this information on page 27 in the LAFCO document. Direct links to the document are on this thread.
Your last question/concern was about sewers.
Sewers will not happen in Wrightwood until the California Regional Water Quality Control Board finds downstream contamination above federal standards. A local CSD will not have the power to implement a Wrightwood sewer system. It will just be directly involved if or when told by the federal government or its management agency to do so. As for businesses wanting a sewer system, you and I must be talking to different people. I only know of one who is in favor of that idea as the cost of such an ordeal would be charged to residences and businesses hooked up to it. You can verify this as the city of Yucca Valley is currently going through this scenario.http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_92820e46-e7fe-11e5-883b-576eb59a2663.html
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Thank you for your timely response and taking the time to address all my questions! You have been most helpful and clear. Thank you again.
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Can someone confirm for me....Will weekenders (non-resident property owners) have a vote on this issue? My friend is concerned about it, but lives in Quartz Hill (Lancaster area). Thanks
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KW,
Everyone who is registered to vote in Wrightwood will be able to vote on this. There was a rumor that only property owners in Wrightwood would be able to vote, but that is not true. Anyone who is registered to vote in Wrightwood can vote. - I know this is not your question, but thought I would quickly clear that one up, too. (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif)
If your friend is registered to vote in Lancaster then they will not be able to vote on this.
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" I remember the Evergreen problem, smiled to myself and said, now the businesses are going to push for a sewer system, great, but only to find out for the businesses only? Partially, not the entire town! Why should I as a property owner in WW be willing to help pay for the business to get a sewer when we can't all benefit? I can't help the county put restriction on their systems! They are on mine too! So, if I understand, which I may not, this new board that would take over wants local control to get a partial sewer, parks and rec, and lighting? Ok, but not at the expense of another tax, that will only go up over time, and it will not benefit the entire town. From my perspective, I have to pay for my septic system on my own, plus they want us to help pay for a business system too? Stating that some time off in the future I may get a sewer system, if I live long enough, off on the Harrison? No thanks! If it can't include all of us,
No thanks, please clarify if I misunderstand."
dean.burdi in answer to your question regarding sewers, for further clarification...in a scenario where sewers are installed for the downtown area only (this is pure hypothetical, no one is talking about putting in sewers), we had clarification from LAFCO, that any sewers installed would be paid for by taxes levied upon those parcels where the sewers are installed. Therefore, if you were a business owner that had a sewer installed on your parcel then you would be taxed to pay for those sewers. If you own a parcel where no sewer is installed then no taxes would be levied upon your parcel. HTH
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Thank you
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The power point portion of the LAFCO presentation given at the August 30th meeting is now posted at wrightwoodcsd.org .
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The power point portion of the LAFCO presentation given at the August 30th meeting is now posted at wrightwoodcsd.org .
LAFCO presentation available here as PDF file (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/LAFCO.CSD.Presentation.8.30.16.pdf)
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September 2016 Poll remains open.
If you are a Wrightwood registered voters in either Los Angeles or San Bernardino County - we need your poll vote.
Click on image below for the Wrightwood CSD poll
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/WW.CSD.Poll.9.2.16.jpg) (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=57c8df68e4b08bcfc1275f1a)
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September 2016 Poll closes in a few days.
Please vote if you are a Wrightwood registered voters in either Los Angeles or San Bernardino County.
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Click here for final Sept 2016 Wrightwood CSD poll result (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=57c8df68e4b08bcfc1275f1a)
The poll results have duplicate attempts that get through advanced anti-cheat algorithms from the same IP address removed.
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Hi. I've been blind for over a year & have been out of the loop. I've heard around town about the CSD thing. From what I've been told by more than a few people is that we as Wrightwoodians would be paying for a sewer system, sewage treatment plant etc., only for the village "business district". Is this correct? Why would I want to pay for something I can't use? There are only a small handful of people who own all of the commercial ( store front) property. Why would I want to pay for wealthy people to get free stuff? Really expensive stuff? Was I misinformed? Can someone please fill me in? Thanks!
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Hi. I've been blind for over a year & have been out of the loop. I've heard around town about the CSD thing. From what I've been told by more than a few people is that we as Wrightwoodians would be paying for a sewer system, sewage treatment plant etc., only for the village "business district". Is this correct? Why would I want to pay for something I can't use? There are only a small handful of people who own all of the commercial ( store front) property. Why would I want to pay for wealthy people to get free stuff? Really expensive stuff? Was I misinformed? Can someone please fill me in? Thanks!
Highlander, did the answers on the first page of this thread help at all? I think that we talked about this issue in detail. I will answer in short here, but you will find more on the first page of this thread.
No one is talking about putting in sewers. And the CSD has nothing to do with putting in sewers. LAFCO granted the proposed CSD the powers of "planning" and "engineering" of a wastewater system, in the event that the County tells the community of Wrightwood that we have to put in sewers. This has nothing to do with whether or not the CSD is approved. In fact, this decision will be made in the LAMP the County is designing, which is due to Lahontan by May 2017, before any CSD would go into effect (July 2017). It then has to be approved by Lahontan by May 2018. So the CSD has nothing to do with whether or not the County will require us to have sewers. The benefit of having planning and engineering powers for wastewater is that if the LAMP requires a sewer system (unlikely) then the CSD will be able to represent the community of Wrightwood's interest, without the CSD we are left hanging, with no representation.
In regards to who pays for sewers: Only property owners that have sewers installed on their property pay taxes for the sewers. If a sewer is not installed on your property then you don't pay the taxes. But again, we are not talking about that right now because that is not being proposed by any agency.
I hope that helps. :2thumbsup:
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The question should be who will be required to pay for the "planning" and "engineering" of a wastewater system, in the event that the County tells the community of Wrightwood that we have to put in sewers. The CSD, with it's limited funds and qualifications or the County who has access to the general fund and fully qualified personal to complete the "planning" and "engineering" which will be required?
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S. Carroll, did the word "blind" happen to stand out in my post? I tried to read the convoluted posts. I've been blind in my left eye for 45 years & had surgery in 2015 on my so-called "good eye". I have to read with glasses & a magnifying glass. Fatiguing & difficult . All I was asking for is a synopsis of this subject. Folks that can be objective & not have a slant or bias one way or another. I don't see very well, not stupid. Thanks for the run down. :2thumbsup:
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There will only be a sewer system if the state mandates it. It's not part of the plan.
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thehallmarks, howdy. I'm a retired Senior Public Works Inspector from the City of Los Angeles & you have a very valid point. "Planning" & Engineering" are about a third of the entire projected budget of any public works project. Not to mention "Environmental impact studies" etc. We should thank our lucky stars that no evidence of a Native American burial site or a Great Wooly Mammoth carcass was found when SR2 was being repaved or when the new catch basins were being constructed. We'd still be getting home via Largo Vista...
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If the need should arise for the planning of a sewer system, the CSD will be responsible for the funding. We discussed this with Lovingood and other county reps at a meeting. They told us that grant funding would be available since the WW CSD is very small and there is funding out there. But they also assured us there is no plans for sewers in Wrightwood at this time and they don't see any in the near future. Can't promise what the future will bring.......
Lynn Crawford
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I'm still inclined to vote no. This new CSD controls streetlights, solid waste, and our 2 small parks. Previous posts admitted that there was no problem with streetlights and solid waste, the parks were the issue. "Local control" means we can have new programs at the parks (although, given their size, not sure what those could be). My question is: is there a parks program that someone (the unnamed creator the walking school bus perhaps) has tried to start that the county has refused? If so, on what grounds? If not, what's the point?
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Years ago I presented a program called Open Schools, Open doors to the principal at the time/Snowline school district. This program would have created a partnership between the parks department and school for additional services such as Safekey, a before and after-school program for kids, and, use of the multi-purpose room and other activities in exchange for parks taking over maintenance of school grounds.
It was a legal document from CCP&R in NV and could have been adapted to work for Wrightwood residents.
Snowline at that time would not open a dialogue.
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Thanks, TLC. It seems the problem there was Snowline, however; if they wouldn't work with the county, I think it is speculative that they would be more inclined to work with a CSD. Like you wrote, they refused to dialogue, so their concerns are unknown.
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The intention is to have the Parks and Rec Department offer classes to residents that aren't being offered now. Such as craft classes, children's classes, more exercise classes, classes for seniors. There are many options out there that we don't get now because our Parks n Rec money goes into the county budget (and stays there). That was the starting point for the CSD in the first place.
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OK. When was such a program proposed to county parks and rec...and the county refused? And why did they refuse?
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Lynn C and Cheapskate:
Running programs takes a lot of effort and coordination. It gets complicated dealing with a school, insurance, finding and cost of instructor, background checks, purchase of materials, how much to charge to make it affordable to all, factoring in depreciation; I could go on. In my former life it was called a pre-activity report. Who has the experience up here to commit to that? To be successful it really can't be a part time job and the CSD won't be allocating enough money (IMHO) for someone to take the job on.
The idea was proposed about 10 years ago and it was impossible to get a response from Snowline.
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tlc,
If you're saying that creating a continuing, ongoing program is very difficult...thank you for making my point. Once a CSD is formed, new parks programs will no doubt be subject to all the regulations you just cited (and that are currently in place).
For fun, I looked at Phelan/Pinon Hills CSD parks programs. There are none. Just a fee schedule for using the community center https://www.pphcsd.org/parks_rec.html
We currently have a similar fee schedule in place (through the "dreaded"/infamous CSA 56 of sewer debate fame): http://www.specialdistricts.org/index.aspx?page=254
Point is: forming a CSA does not magically improve parks and rec programs. I continue to challenge: proponents, name the program you want to implement that the current structure is preventing.
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I have no dog in this hunt, but I thought I'd chime in a bit anyway. I think the questions and points being made in these most recent posts are good questions and background info. as those of you in WW consider your vote.
I'm in the Pinon Hills/Phelan CSD. They do have monthly and occasional programs in the two community centers and the park (we have one park). Some are funded in conjunction with transfers from the County budget and in conjunction with local entities like the Chamber, Kiwani's etc. I love that they sponsor the 'summer movies' program for kids. Free movies, free popcorn, free soda. Bring your own mat and sit on the floor. This Grandma ain't gonna sit on the floor... but I think it's great that they do it. And, there are other community events the CSD is involved in to one extent or another. It would be up to your elected Board of Directors, with community input, to decide your priorities.
As for the question about funding for 'engineering' etc. if the water board requires sewers. .. I would double check the response from our Supervisor and county staff that the CSD would have to apply for grants to pay for it. If there is a determination that sewers will be required for sections of WW and if there is no CSD.. the County will be paying for it - grant or no grant. What has happened here is that the County transfers the monies to the local CSD. Those monies are part of your taxes to the County.
So, keep the debate going. What I love about our CSD is that it is local. I can get someone on the phone or via email and get a response faster than sitting on hold with the county. Good luck guys, cheryl o7o
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Cheryl,
Thanks for the comments about community centers and parks in the PPHCSD (this seems to be the main issue in Wrightwood). "Local control" is a great-sounding cliche, but it seems that the county is willing to work with your CSD to make movies-in-the-park happen. It seems the county is willing to work with Timberline Lions to make bingo happen in Wrightwood. It seems the county is willing to work to with Snowline Players to make plays happen.
If the money/taxes that we pay to the county are there...for the asking...why do we need a CSD to improve parks and rec? Again, I ask the movers-and-shakers of Wrightwood who propose this measure: name the program you have asked the county to fund/allow that was refused? And what were the grounds of the refusal?
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Wow, lots of information to wrap one's head around & sounds like people on both sides of this issue have valid opinions. Some responses seem to be speculation & conjecture though.... Snowline is a major "wrench jammed in the gears" of progress or is it the County? Thanks to everyone for bringing me up-to-speed on this issue. All of the people that I spoke with were pretty much focused on the mythical sewer system. Lot's more on the table. Thanks again. :2thumbsup:
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It seems the county is willing to work with Timberline Lions to make bingo happen in Wrightwood. It seems the county is willing to work to with Snowline Players to make plays happen.
I don't know that this is something the County really gets involved with... both of those organizations just "rent" the building. Not sure if county involvement is a big deal here.
If the money/taxes that we pay to the county are there...for the asking...why do we need a CSD to improve parks and rec?
I think it's more accurate to say that the pot of money we send to the county (through taxes), is there, but we have to fight with all the other unincorporated areas of the county to get a portion of that money back. With a CSD, pretty much all the money stays local (including any surplus).
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but we have to fight with all the other unincorporated areas of the county to get a portion of that money back. With a CSD, pretty much all the money stays local (including any surplus).
I guess I just want some evidence of the fight! When has somebody asked and been refused? (...and WHY did the county refuse? The local CSD might have to operate within the same parameters/regulations and refuse as well)
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Our community will have the opportunity to vote for 5 Board Member positions to represent the Wrightwood CSD at the March 7th, 2017, election. If you are interested in running for a board member position, please visit the San Bernardino County Elections Office at: 777 East Rialto Avenue, San Bernardino, CA 92415-0770. The deadline to apply to be a board member is December 9th, 2016. Both San Bernardino and Los Angeles County residents must apply at this location. You must be registered to vote in Wrightwood to be on the ballot.
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To clarify, does this mean we will vote on the CSD (yay or nay) at the same time as we vote for the Board Members?
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Yes that is correct. The question on the ballot will be yay or nay on formation of the CSD and regardless of your answer to that question, you can vote on five board members.
The link to that information from LAFCO is here (on page 2): http://www.sbcounty.gov/uploads/LAFCO/AgendaNotices/20161116/Item_06.pdf
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And to further clarify: no one on the "pro" side has answered my question. The parks programs you say the CSD will bring...The existing structure could bring them as well...a new layer of gov't is not necessary. Has ANYONE applied for a program with the county and been refused? If so, why did they refuse? Thanks!
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In short, the CSA 56 management structure does not allow for us to run programs.
Currently their equivalent of a manager is spread so thin between his duties outside of Wrightwood that Wrightwood is staying at the status quo of simply managing facilities and renting out the community building and museum. We have talked about implementing programs, specifically summer programs for kids, but that has not been a possibility due to no staff to run it. The summer program that ran last year in the community building was an excellent program, run entirely by Snowline Players, a nonprofit that does not receive any support from the County.
The CSD would have the district monies going directly to Wrightwood and would not be paying staff who spend most of their time outside of Wrightwood.
You ask what programs we have asked for and been denied. That is not the right question to be asking. If I were to be asking for programs from the current management then I would know full well that I would be the one doing all the work to make it happen, as a volunteer. I donate a lot of my time to volunteer programs here in the community. In this situation the question should be, if we have the money then why isn't it being spent here in Wrightwood? Why should we make the people that spend so much of their time volunteering do this work, when we could have a paid staff do it? Why are we giving money to people who are spending all of their time in communities other than Wrightwood?
I'm guessing that someone is going to take my response and make it personal. But this is not about me. We have a corps of volunteers in this community who spend a lot of their time working to make things happen here. I and others will still do this once the CSD is formed. But the point is, the money is there, and currently we are sending it out of our community, and that does not make sense. We can leverage the taxes that we already pay, have a staff that works to put on these programs, and then volunteers like me will gladly step up to help out.
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"I donate a lot of my time to volunteer programs here in the community."
Understatement of the year. . .
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(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/Smileys/classic/2thumbsup.gif)
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LAFCO is hosting a governance training workshop on December 8, from 10AM - 12 PM, at the Mojave Water Agency in Apple Valley. Anyone who is thinking about running for WCSD Board Seats might find this helpful.
Attached is a link to the flyer:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5J8Ta1k-_IOSEN5cHZFbXo0QUdlWG84MmlBQ1VKa056V3Fr/view?usp=sharing
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In short, the CSA 56 management structure does not allow for us to run programs.
I guess my question is, why can other CSAs pull it off but not ours?
From the CSA 20 (Joshua Tree) website, http://www.specialdistricts.org/index.aspx?page=134 "We are always seeking individuals interested in becoming Independent Contractors offering various programs to the community. Contact the community center to learn more about opportunities and the details of how to submit a proposal." Is their management structure or governing docs, charter, whatever different than ours?
It looks like CSA 29 (Lucerne Valley) has senior programs and is trying to create adult sports leagues. http://csa29.com/Home.html
I was looking for some CSD's with thriving parks programs, one that leapt out was near Sacramento, http://www.yourcsd.com/541/Parks-Facilities-Stations. Looking at their activity guide, virtually all of the programs -- mommy and me, kids sports, etc. -- are fee-based. Presumably to cover the cost of renting the facility for an hour and paying the instructor.
(the CSD does have 1) paid staff, some full-time with a professional salary to organize/oversee the programs, and 2) presumably an elected board who hires the staff)
If the programs are going to be fee-based anyway, why not just keep the current CSA and create the programs like the other CSAs?
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I guess my question is, why can other CSAs pull it off but not ours?
From the CSA 20 (Joshua Tree) website, http://www.specialdistricts.org/index.aspx?page=134 "We are always seeking individuals interested in becoming Independent Contractors offering various programs to the community. Contact the community center to learn more about opportunities and the details of how to submit a proposal." Is their management structure or governing docs, charter, whatever different than ours?
It looks like CSA 29 (Lucerne Valley) has senior programs and is trying to create adult sports leagues. http://csa29.com/Home.html
I was looking for some CSD's with thriving parks programs, one that leapt out was near Sacramento, http://www.yourcsd.com/541/Parks-Facilities-Stations. Looking at their activity guide, virtually all of the programs -- mommy and me, kids sports, etc. -- are fee-based. Presumably to cover the cost of renting the facility for an hour and paying the instructor.
This is a good question. Since you have already done most of the hard work by identifying like-CSAs and researched what they have to offer, it would avoid reinventing the wheel if you could contact them to ask why they did it and would they do it again. I think we'd all appreciate it.
On your other point, I would would think fee for service would be quite expensive for smaller populations liie ours with no money coming back for the programs. I wonder if population size was part of their formula?
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I would would think fee for service would be quite expensive for smaller populations liie ours with no money coming back for the programs. I wonder if population size was part of their formula?
Interesting point. You are basically admitting that demand for additional service will be so small that the costs can't be covered without subsidy. There are actually many public and private programs already. For youth: Little League, soccer, school band, and the Snowline Players in the community building.. For adults: there is a hiking club, bingo in the community building, a yoga studio next to the dentist, etc. Not to mention programs and offerings at the country club.
And what money is coming back for programs? According to the LAFCO budget p. 24 of 35, http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/LAFCO.CSD.Presentation.8.30.16.pdf, there is no line item for additional money for parks programs. Perhaps you will tell all of us it is coming from "miscellaneous"? (if I was more sophisticated, I would post an image of the budget, but my skills aren't there yet, ha!)
I think that most parks programs (if any, because the PPHCSD doesn't have any) offered by the new CSD will have a fee. Which means that anyone right now, under the current system, can rent the community building and charge a fee for their expertise. So what does a CSD change other than creating a few county jobs? To many, "creating a few county jobs" is the slippery slope of expanding government...
My point is: Google "Wrightwood CSA 56" and you get a webpage for parks and recreation. That is the mission. The MAC minutes are full of everything other than parks. Programs could be offered now, because other CSAs have found a way to offer them. Not attempting to expand parks programs under the current structure is a choice that the current CSA board makes...perhaps because no one is asking. I am simply a mortal with 2 eyes and a brain. Whatever parts of my analysis are wrong, please refute, I value truth more than being "right".
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Public Notice of Election for Wrightwood CSD (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/PublicNotice_Measure_WrightwoodCSD.pdf)
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Facebook
Wrightwood MAC
An election will be held on March 7, 2017 to determine if registered voters within the community of Wrightwood wish to create a locally-governed community services district. The ballot will also contain a contest to elect a five-member Board of Directors who will take office if the formation of the Wrightwood Community Services District is approved by voters.
Candidate filing for this proposed district is underway and will continue through 5 p.m. Friday, December 9. Citizens residing within the proposed district who are interested in running for the Wrightwood Community Services District Board of Directors may obtain and file the appropriate documents at the San Bernardino County Elections Office, 777 E. Rialto Avenue in San Bernardino from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday through Friday.
The Elections Office is accepting documents for candidates residing in San Bernardino County and Los Angeles County. Completed candidate filing documents must be filed at the Elections Office by 5 p.m. on Friday, December 9, 2016.
For more information on this election, please visit the Elections Office website at SBCountyElections.com (http://SBCountyElections.com) or call (909) 387-8300.
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Just a short message as to why I'm glad we have a CSD here in Phelan/Pinon Hills. I know the WW CSD proposal does not include water services. The point of my message here is why I'm very glad there is a local CSD.
I had a water leak that was the "leak from Hades" .. in that we would have had to dig to Hades to find it. The Phelan/Pinon Hills CSD staff couldn't have been more helpful. They gave me updated water use reports as we'd find the 'possible leak'.. they sent staff here to walk the property with me. They were just so darn helpful. And, they were LOCAL!!
The leak is fixed!! Hurrah!! And, Chris Doran of Doran Construction here locally was the one that did it. I can't say enough good things about his company's work.
Those of you in WW are contemplating a CSD with a shorter list of services. Perhaps some of you think "if it ain't broke don't fix it." I write to suggest to you that a local CSD with the ability to oversee local concerns brings your government closer to the community. It isn't an added layer of bureaucracy.. it's removing the far away layer of government and replacing it with one closer to home. That's it. cheryl o7o
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It isn't an added layer of bureaucracy.. it's removing the far away layer of government and replacing it with one closer to home. That's it. cheryl o7o
That's what we've been thinking - Perfect! Well said, Cheryl. Thank you.
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It isn't an added layer of bureaucracy.. it's removing the far away layer of government and replacing it with one closer to home. That's it. cheryl o7o
Respectfully, that is only true if the jobs of the people administering the "far away layer" are eliminated. I have my doubts about that (does anyone actually know?). I understand that having a CSD might have some benefits, but let's not deceive ourselves.
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The PPHCSD isthe water department (you can pay your bill on their website) and would respond just as they do in Wrightwood from Golden State Water when folks have an issue.
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The PPHCSD isthe water department (you can pay your bill on their website) and would respond just as they do in Wrightwood from Golden State Water when folks have an issue.
And the relevance of this is? The Wrightwood CSD does not include water, Golden State will continue to be our water company.
It isn't an added layer of bureaucracy.. it's removing the far away layer of government and replacing it with one closer to home."
I'll repeat myself:
Respectfully, that is only true if the jobs of the people administering the "far away layer" are eliminated. I have my doubts about that (does anyone actually know?). I understand that having a CSD might have some benefits, but let's not deceive ourselves.
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(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/MD_Report_CandidateListPage_1.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/MD_Report_CandidateListPage_2.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/MD_Report_CandidateListPage_3.JPG)
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We will be holding informational presentations by experts on Community Service Districts here in Wrightwood. Please attend!
January 17th, 5PM, Wrightwood Community Building, presentation by SBC LAFCO EO Kathleen Rollings-McDonald. Informal Meet and Greet with candidates.
January 21, 2PM, Wrightwood Community Building, presentation by Helendale CSD General Manager Kimberly Cox. Informal Meet and Greet with candidates.
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Saturday, January 21st, CSD Info Meeting is canceled due to impending storm.
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It would have been good to get candidate statements and election information before the arrival of absentee ballots. I voted last week.
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They were included in the WWPOA newsletter that came out the end of January.
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So LA County gets roped in by actions taken by San Bernardino County Supervisors, not the representation I embrace. If there's all this extra money floating around for programs, how about a movement to give it back? People are always looking for more ways to spend tax dollars, or fees.
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If one were so inclined to challenge the election results, what jurisdiction would that be filed in. I suspect both even though the ballot takes place in San Bernardino County. Who is charged with defending an action? Does anyone know the timeframe that this could be accomplished in? I have no issue with Supervisors changing rules to skirt an issue, happens all the time. You usually have to just follow the money train to see where they are beholden. However, this one crosses County lines and forces an issue without fair input from those residents on the other side of the line. Makes us second class citizens being bullied by our larger neighbor.
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A "CON" from a long time WWPOA member about the voting process.....
Good morning, Randy.
My wife and I have been property owners in Wrightwood for more than 30 years. We pay property taxes and other related local fees. We've been members of the Wrightwood Property Owners Association for almost all of those 30 years. But we are not full-time residents. As weekenders, though, we shop locally and pay sales tax on items we purchase in town. But I think it stinks (and I think that's the most appropriate word to use) that voting on the CSD is only for those residents who are registered voters in Wrightwood. The rest of us, it would appear, are second-class citizens who are prohibited from voting on an item that will certainly affect us. It smacks me as taxation without representation. I'd be interested in knowing how many Wrightwood homeowners live "down the hill" and will be excluded from participating in a democratic process. Surely this vote could have been extended to all residents through the county's assessor's office rather than the Registrar of Voters. I thought the WWPOA was a voice for ALL property owners.
Sincerely, Norm.
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Another potentially CON issue received by the WWPOA....
Another CON I have received has to do with the perceived powers of the CSD by the WW community.
Example.... who will be in charge of county road repair? is that a CSD issue? or is it a CSA 56 MAC issue... but as part of the CSD approval process, CSA 56 and the associated MAC are being dissolved.... so if no CSA... then NO MAC so how does WW deal with County Roads, SBC FIre, SO, Special Districts etc.?
Will the County think that previous MAC issues are now a CSD issue?
Did we add an extra layer of government? Will access on non CSD issues to the County Supervisors office be less accessible?
TIA
Randy
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I have no issue with Supervisors changing rules to skirt an issue, happens all the time. You usually have to just follow the money train to see where they are beholden. However, this one crosses County lines and forces an issue without fair input from those residents on the other side of the line. Makes us second class citizens being bullied by our larger neighbor.
Girl Farmer:
The SB County Supervisor did not skirt any issues by supporting the resolution, this was the exact protocol to be taken if the Supervisor chose to support the initiative. Your Supervisor, Supervisor Antonovich (from 2016), supported the initiative also. His letter of support is public record. This is documented in the LAFCO staff report and is available on the LAFCO site or at wrightwoodcsd.org.
Your last point "being bullied by our larger neighbor"... none of your tax dollars, as a LA County resident, will go to the CSD. You are going to be given the services without contributing a penny of your tax dollars. I'm not sure how that could be viewed as "being bullied" when you will be given services for free. You can even choose not to use those services, up to you.
You might want to look at your current property tax bill and check out how your current park and rec taxes, none of which will go to the CSD, are currently going to a bond in LA County which pays for parks that aren't anywhere near Wrightwood, and most likely you will never use. There is a real injustice if you believe that your tax dollars should go directly to services that you use rather than to other people.
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OK, I'll just ask. Was it done this way in order to facilitate a simple majority vote?
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To be honest, have not been to any of the meetings, because i thought this was a good idea from the start. But i have kept up on the information provided for us to vote on. As a permanent resident, I feel having a local person that could have an interest/say-so on our wonderful little community is a good thing. I'll have to agree with CaptureCom, there is enough info out there for us to make an informed decision ... And we actually have some concerned locals that want to run for the position. Go Wrightwood ...
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A "CON" from a long time WWPOA member about the voting process.....
Good morning, Randy.
My wife and I have been property owners in Wrightwood for more than 30 years. We pay property taxes and other related local fees. We've been members of the Wrightwood Property Owners Association for almost all of those 30 years. But we are not full-time residents. As weekenders, though, we shop locally and pay sales tax on items we purchase in town. But I think it stinks (and I think that's the most appropriate word to use) that voting on the CSD is only for those residents who are registered voters in Wrightwood. The rest of us, it would appear, are second-class citizens who are prohibited from voting on an item that will certainly affect us. It smacks me as taxation without representation. I'd be interested in knowing how many Wrightwood homeowners live "down the hill" and will be excluded from participating in a democratic process. Surely this vote could have been extended to all residents through the county's assessor's office rather than the Registrar of Voters. I thought the WWPOA was a voice for ALL property owners.
Sincerely, Norm.
Although I have not had a house up in WW as long as you, I'm with you about being excluded. Thanks for putting forth a voice for the weekenders.
Steve
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Another potentially CON issue received by the WWPOA....
Another CON I have received has to do with the perceived powers of the CSD by the WW community.
Example.... who will be in charge of county road repair? is that a CSD issue? or is it a CSA 56 MAC issue... but as part of the CSD approval process, CSA 56 and the associated MAC are being dissolved.... so if no CSA... then NO MAC so how does WW deal with County Roads, SBC FIre, SO, Special Districts etc.?
Will the County think that previous MAC issues are now a CSD issue?
Did we add an extra layer of government? Will access on non CSD issues to the County Supervisors office be less accessible?
TIA
Randy
The current MAC has no jurisdiction or control over the county road repair. They have an advisory function. They are appointed by the Supervisor's office and can be a voice of concerns to the supervisor's office or Parks and Recreation. They are not a layer of government, since they cannot govern.
The proposed CSD would have elected representatives who have been chosen by residents. They are not appointees of the supervisor. The proposed CSD has authority over a few but important matters. The current MAC, again, has no final authority. The CSD has local control and some powers.
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A "CON" from a long time WWPOA member about the voting process.....
Good morning, Randy.
My wife and I have been property owners in Wrightwood for more than 30 years. We pay property taxes and other related local fees. We've been members of the Wrightwood Property Owners Association for almost all of those 30 years. But we are not full-time residents. As weekenders, though, we shop locally and pay sales tax on items we purchase in town. But I think it stinks (and I think that's the most appropriate word to use) that voting on the CSD is only for those residents who are registered voters in Wrightwood. The rest of us, it would appear, are second-class citizens who are prohibited from voting on an item that will certainly affect us. It smacks me as taxation without representation. I'd be interested in knowing how many Wrightwood homeowners live "down the hill" and will be excluded from participating in a democratic process. Surely this vote could have been extended to all residents through the county's assessor's office rather than the Registrar of Voters. I thought the WWPOA was a voice for ALL property owners.
Sincerely, Norm.
The CSD voting process has to be governed by our ballot and election laws. If we were an incorporated town and had a mayor, and you owned a second home here but were registered to vote somewhere else, you would be unable to vote for a specific candidate for mayor. Only a few municipalities in the United States provide a way for second-home owners to vote in their local elections; that is VERY uncommon. But if you are upset with this, please don't hold this against the CSD effort. Your inability to vote is not under their control.
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Cheapskate, you may find your answer here:
Topic: Meet the candidates for WW CSD Board of Directors Membership
Introducing Stephanie Carroll - WW CSD Board Member Candidate
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,24067.msg314884/topicseen.html#msg314884
BTW, glad to see Leo's recent post on that topic - excellent! :2thumbsup:
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Cheapskate, you may find your answer here:
Topic: Meet the candidates for WW CSD Board of Directors Membership
Introducing Stephanie Carroll - WW CSD Board Member Candidate
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,24067.msg314884/topicseen.html#msg314884
BTW, glad to see Leo's recent post on that topic - excellent! :2thumbsup:
I strongly encourage all voters to read these bios. I think a majority of questions about the individual candidates' goals are answered in the bio. Since the CSD board positions are voluntary and all of the people involved have jobs and families that consume most of their time, I would bet each candidate would appreciate it if residents read what they have prepared and posted to this page.
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A reminder, the CSD meeting is at 4pm today.
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I went.
The information was good.
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Excellent presentation by both Kathleen McDonald and Kimberly Cox. The meeting answered more questions and cleared up some concerns. I really hope the CSD passes.
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The phone number is incorrect: it's 760-249-3069
Hank