WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => Wrightwood CSD Topics => Topic started by: Wrightwood on Jul 19, 17, 03:42:05 PM
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Resolution No. 2017-2 - Solid Waste Collection LA County (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/SKM_C364e17080211260.pdf)
Resolution No. 2017-3 - Solid Wast Collection San Bernardino County (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/SKM_C364e17080211480.pdf)
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So...am I reading this correctly: after public comment, blah blah, the WWCSD Board can impose a tax on our LA neighbors? When the collective "we" approved the CSD we gave them taxing power?
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You are not reading this correctly. It is just the opposite. LA County residents will get dump cards from San Bernardino County even though their property tax "slice" for that will still go to LA County. That will be paid for out of the CSD budget.
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Thanks for that explanation!
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LA County residents will get dump cards from San Bernardino County even though their property tax "slice" for that will still go to LA County. That will be paid for out of the CSD budget.
Then can I get the CSD to pay for my 4 dump card fees also?
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Are you sure about LA County getting the money from LA, and not the CSD?
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I need it explained to me, clearly, why we residents of SB County, are footing the dumpcard costs for LA County residents. Also, at about $85.00 per LA household, how much does this add up to? This makes no sense to me. Someone, please explain this!
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I thought the issue was to get LA cty to put the fee on the tax role for the parcels now a part of the WW CSD and send the funds to the CSD.
I also heard--early in the formation of the CSD that the County Supervisor for that area was refusing to cooperate! Something to the effect, I'm not going to collect a tax/fee on my constituents and send to $$ to another cty.
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This has gone through several "versions"...
Early on, the CSD candidates were suggesting that they issue the cards for SB County residents (Mandatory), and "optionally" allow LA County residents to purchase cards (no property tax assessment).
The latest *I* heard was that yes, LA County was able to put a local tax on LA County property taxes, which I assumed also meant they would send that money to the CSD.
I'm not happy about this tax anyway, but have paid it every year I've lived here. I don't use the dump, so it's just $85 profit for the county. Every time you use the dump, the dump "charges" the county a fee. That fee comes out of the $85. If you never use your dump card, the county (now CSD) would pocket that money.
I don't like it being mandatory for SB County residents. It would also be very unfair if it was an "optional" thing for LA County residents. If it's optional for them, it should be optional for us in SB County. And if the CSD does not get money from LA County, then this is completely unfair.
The only way this works, is that it's mandatory for all, and the CSD gets the money, or its optional for all.
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I'm not sure anymore of the final resolution. I suggest going to the meeting tonight for details!
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Audio from meeting:
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/WCSD.8.3.17.MP3 (http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/WCSD.8.3.17.MP3)
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I should have posted earlier but I just ran out of time today;
It was agreed tonight by the board to extend the hearing to August 7th. The issue is that we need to find out from LAFCO if voting no on the LA County Dump Fee Resolution would affect the CSD in some negative way.
There is a deadline of August 10th in which to approve the resolution and give it to LA County.
If voting no on the resolution for imposing a tax on the LA County residents does not affect the CSD in LAFCO's eyes then I think several board members are inclined to vote that way.
I myself am a bit conflicted. On the one hand I don't like the LA residents paying an additional fee and LA County not giving it back to the CSD. On the other hand I think it unfair as well that LA County Residents pay zero towards the Community Building, the grounds, the Museum, or really any of the other facilities that the CSD is in charge of in our nice little town, which just so happens to be in both Counties. I can understand why they feel a bit ripped off since LA County just seems to tax LA County residents and give nothing back.
The whole idea of incorporating LA County into the CSD was to make it one place instead of a town split in two.
It would be nice to have LA County give the CSD part of the money they already collect. But that battle will have to wait until until after San Bernardino County gives us the money that is rightfully ours, which will take time and persistence. All normal and expected.
Regards,
--Wes
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Not all SB county residents are happy about being forced to pay this fee either!
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Maybe someone could post a typical LA County tax bill showing the solid waste line item.
Here's what a 2016-2017 SB County bill
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/2016TypicalSBTaxBill1.JPG)
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I have done some more research and according to LA County there is no solid waste fee for residential LA County residents. There is one for commercial businesses for around $35. in LA County however.
Regards,
--Wes'
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If voting no on the resolution for imposing a tax on the LA County residents does not affect the CSD in LAFCO's eyes then I think several board members are inclined to vote that way.
I myself am a bit conflicted. On the one hand I don't like the LA residents paying an additional fee and LA County not giving it back to the CSD. On the other hand I think it unfair as well that LA County Residents pay zero towards the Community Building, the grounds, the Museum, or really any of the other facilities that the CSD is in charge of in our nice little town, which just so happens to be in both Counties. I can understand why they feel a bit ripped off since LA County just seems to tax LA County residents and give nothing back.
Wes and board, please keep in mind that one of the promises of the CSD was to offer the LA County residents dump cards. They have been neglected for a long time and this is a fairly minor fee. And it was in the proposed budget. (I don't live on the LA County side - I just think you need to take them into consideration)
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Well,since I can't sleep.. I thought I'd chime in.
The SBC tax bill that Wrightwood posted doesn't add up to me. The $1813 tax levy and the other charges do not add up to the $1937 total taxes owed. Perhaps a page is missing? Whatever, it doesn't matter because the focus here is the dump fee.
The $85.14 is what we here in SBC pay for the privilege to use the dump four times a month. I always found it to be a cultural experience when I used the dump. I now have two CR&R accounts. One for the house trash and one for the horses. I'm old now and I like convenience. I haven't used my dump card in years. That is ok with me.
A thought for those of you that don't like to pay the dump fee on your tax bill: What if that went away and it was all voluntary? Would the desert and our neighborhoods become even more strewn with trash? Just thinking here.
I do think the issue of whether LA County residents in the WWCSD will have an added bill for dump use or whether the County of L.A. will be transferring funds to the WWCSD is an issue to be resolved. I'm sure that will happen.
Wes.. The fact that L.A. County residents don't have their taxes go towards the community building, the museum, etc. is an argument that doesn't hold water. All the WW visitors that come annually don't contribute either. The L.A. County residents of the Wrightwood area are not some poor cousins. They are part of the community here. That is why they were included in the WWCSD proposal. LynnC is right.
The CSD has hired a new manager/executive director/whatever title. I'm sure he will be forthcoming with information on these issues once he is on board. And, it does sound like your Board is focused on this issue and the fairness for the L.A.side property owners of WW.
A new entity like the WWCSD does need a smidge of time to get up and running. In the meantime, I think all questions are good questions. cheryl o7o
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A thought for those of you that don't like to pay the dump fee on your tax bill: What if that went away and it was all voluntary? Would the desert and our neighborhoods become even more strewn with trash? Just thinking here.
This fee is more about being a money maker.
If the intent was to reduce illegal dumping, then the solution is simple: prove you have trash service or you get assessed the dump fee
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Remember the big selling point before the March election? -- that forming a CSD would simply bring local control to money already sitting in San Bernardino, money being managed by faceless bureaucrats in different departments. It's not a new layer of government; things will magically improve because a local board who understands the community will be managing the money.
Now we know that The Board can levy taxes on parcels within the CSD (ahem, my bad, they're "fees" according to Prop 26 enacted in 2010, no direct vote needed, no 2/3 majority required). The Resolution says they get that taxing power from LAFCO. I suppose LAFCO gets it from Sacramento.
I wonder if LAFCO allows the CSD Board to levy "fees" for new streetlights? Or park improvements? Hmm...
Not that they would; board members have to face the voters. But in future Election Days it's possible the CSD will be doing something the County never did: asking us to tax ourselves further for this worthy improvement, and this other one too.
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The SBC tax bill that Wrightwood posted doesn't add up to me. The $1813 tax levy and the other charges do not add up to the $1937 total taxes owed. Perhaps a page is missing? Whatever, it doesn't matter because the focus here is the dump fee.
It's the only page to this tax bill (other than the pay stubs)
You have to add the $1813 plus the other items below it in box 13 to come up with the $1937
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Bob C.. I haven't seen any figures to be able to judge if the the dump cards are a money maker. Have you?
Wrightwood.. I guess I shouldn't try to add when I'm trying to fall asleep. thx.
Cheapskate.. I'm pretty sure the tax vs fee started back in the 90s with the Gann Initiative which followed the Jarvis Prop 13 initiative. Counties and municipalities got very creative with their definition of fees after that and began to levy 'fees' for a lot of public services that were previously paid for out of property taxes before Prop 13. I don't recall the 2010 Prop 26. They were both passed by a statewide vote. That's the people speaking .. not the bureaucrats.
I'm not sure that the WWCSD even has the power to put a tax increase on the ballot. It's a good question. cheryl o7o
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Oh, fiddlesticks.. I made a mistake in my previous regarding the Gann Initiative. Prop 13 was passed in June 1978. The Gann Initiative was passed shortly thereafter.. in 79 or 80.
I just opened my MP to see the front page story about Al Morrissette being appointed as the new WWCSD General Manager. In my opinion the WWCSD Board made an excellent choice. The headline in the story was accurate but certainly didn't do Al justice. I have exchanged numerous emails with him and have sat down face-to-face to discuss issues in his position as a Board Member of the PPHCSD. I have always found him to be open to all opinions and a person that does his research. He was also the top, vote-getter here in the last election. That says something about what this community thinks of Al. I reserve my position to disagree with him about some of his columns in the MP. Hah!
cheryl o7o
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Quote from tcarabians: "I'm not sure that the WWCSD even has the power to put a tax increase on the ballot. It's a good question."
I'd bet money on "yes", I now suspect it was the whole point of the CSD. Improvements like new parks cost money; such upgrades would be near town in SB county; but many of the users would be from the LA side. ALL beneficiaries should pay (Wes Zuber recently expressed this opinion); the only way is to create a new entity that reaches across both counties. Hence the CSD. (Ironically...intentionally...???...the entity that put up the $20K to get the CSD issue on the ballot was called One Town, I think)
Nothing wrong with that per se...ultimately nothing happens that we don't get to vote on.
But I never appreciated the half-truths about "oh, it just gives us local control". I could smell a bigger agenda, until now I didn't know what it was.
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Bob C.. I haven't seen any figures to be able to judge if the the dump cards are a money maker. Have you?
Of course it's a money maker for the CSD. If it wasn't, why would they want to take control of it? Why do something for no benefit? No, I don't know the actual dollar amount. It does depend on how many people actually use the dump card. But, according to their budget, the "solid waste fee" is around $224,000. And that's only the current San Bernardino County residents.
https://wrightwoodcsd.org/budget/ (https://wrightwoodcsd.org/budget/)
This isn't knocking the CSD.. the county started this "fee". If anyone is going to make money on it, it might as well be the CSD. After all, the county was pocketing money, too.
You betcha, this is about money... that is a serious amount of cash. No, I dont like being forced to pay it as a SB County resident. In my eyes, a mandatory "fee" is a tax, because I have to pay it whether or not I get extra benefit from it or not.
Let's hope the CSD does the right thing. It should either be mandatory for everyone, or optional for everyone.
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Hello everyone, Started a new account with a user name that was a bit more CSD centric, instead of it being Ultimate Internet. I didn't even really notice since I had that user name saved in my browser. I will log in with different user names depending on the topic being posted.
Regards,
--Wes
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I wonder if LAFCO allows the CSD Board to levy "fees" for new streetlights? Or park improvements? Hmm...
The answer is yes. But there is a big process for doing so.. it is not at the whim of the board. The board would have to follow Proposition 218 which requires in part to get 2/3 of the voters to go along with it anything like that.
I think that's good news. It really does require overwhelming support of the voters to create or increase a tax.
Regards,
--Wes
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Let's hope the CSD does the right thing. It should either be mandatory for everyone, or optional for everyone.
Bob C makes a great point.
Regards,
--Wes
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Wes, how many properties in LA County are we talking about? (In other words, what is the total cost for dump cards for those residents?)
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Wes, how many properties in LA County are we talking about? (In other words, what is the total cost for dump cards for those residents?)
111 residential Parcels at 85.14 each, which makes it $9,450.54.
Costs are;
There is a .30 fee charged by the LA Tax Collection office for each parcel from LA County for processing and a One time setup fee of $250.
There is a .25 charged by the SB Tax Collection office fee for each parcel in SB County processing and a One time setup fee of $150
There is Dump card production by the WWCSD which we don't know the cost of that yet.
Every time someone uses their dump card there is a charge to the WWCSD. I will know more about this tomorrow, but is the same for both Counties of course. The way to think about it is that it doesn't matter which County you live in, it is that you live within the Wrightwood CSD and everyone is treated the same way.
Regards,
--Wes
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Complete mailing for SB County Disposal Use Permit (Dump Card) for 2017-2018
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard1a.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard1b.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2a.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2b.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2c.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2d.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2a.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard2b.JPG)
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There's an interesting sentence at the end of paragraph 2: "For Mountain residents, this permit is NOT an exemption from mandatory trash and recycling services". What has that meant for those of you in WW? cheryl o7o
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For Mountain residents, this permit is NOT an exemption from mandatory trash and recycling services
Good catch, I think it is indeed meant for those in WW. But as I understand it, it isn't mandatory right now, probably this means.. should that ever come to pass.
Regards,
--Wes
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I wonder if the extra punches for 13 F (flammable vegetation) loads are part of the calculation. Or if it's just the 52 loads equal $85.14 bill.
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/CSD/DumpCard/DumpCard1b.JPG)
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Have we confirmed that LA County will send the fees that they collect to the CSD?
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Have we confirmed that LA County will send the fees that they collect to the CSD?
They really have no choice. Wrightwood CSD is the taxing entity when it comes to the powers it has. They, the County, are just the collectors. We deal with the Tax Collecting office directly. They have a mechanism whereby we put the language and the assessed amount on the Property tax bill and they ACH it over to the CSD bank account. This is what happens with San Bernardino anyway and everything looks about the same to me for LA County.
The resolution must pass first by the board of course to take this action.
Regards,
--Wes
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" Wrightwood CSD is the taxing entity"
It was my understanding that the imposition of a tax took a 2/3 vote of those the tax who were being levied upon--not the same for fees. So what is it, a tax or a fee???
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The "Solid Waste Generation Service Charge," is a household hazardous waste fee that is collected by LA COUNTY Public Works. If you are a LA COUNTY resident, and you see a $3.51 "Solid Waste Fee" on your property tax bill, this is the specific fee you are being charged. This amount is charged on every residential parcel in LA COUNTY. This fee funds LA COUNTY recycling efforts such as household hazardous waste disposal and recycling programs, Christmas tree disposal, and advertising for recycling events throughout LA COUNTY.
There is a phone number next to the "Solid Waste Fee" on the LA COUNTY tax bill: (626) 458-3564. You can contact this number to verify the information I've shared. You can also call: (888)CLEAN-LA to get this information. Select option #6, and it explains the fee.
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San Bernardino County is pushing back and not releasing the dump card income to the Wrightwood CSD
This is not the case, quite to the contrary.
Regards,
--Wes
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That is what was said at the meeting on August 3rd. Has the county agreed to release the program as of today? Have they indicated when they would release the dump card program to the Wrightwood CSD? Are they going to pro-rate the amount already collected, since cards were just issued that go from July 2017 to June 2018?
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And now the Wrightwood CSD wants to impose taxes on a group of people who had no reasonable way to defeat this measure.
This is a little like arguing that people on Apple don't want this but the people on Spruce want that.. It is really one place, Wrightwood. And it has one government entity when it comes to street lighting, sewer planning, solid waste and parks and rec. I don't think this is a bad thing, I never thought of Wrightwood being two separate places at all.
The CSD is pretty new and it was passed by everyone in Wrightwood not just the people that happen to live over on this block or that block.
The CSD does get money for this, no doubt about it, probably not as much as we might think but lets face it the County didn't have the money or spend what they had to really help out the Community Building, the Parks and the bathrooms.. It's our town and we will take care of it like we should.
Regards,
--Wes
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That is what was said at the meeting on August 3rd. Has the county agreed to release the program as of today? Have they indicated when they would release the dump card program to the Wrightwood CSD? Are they going to pro-rate the amount already collected, since cards were just issued that go from July 2017 to June 2018?
There really is no releasing. It will just change on your property tax bill to *CO LAND USE - WCSD 85.14 which you will get in November.
Regards,
--Wes
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I should say this is for SB County so far.. if the resolution passes for LA then it would say the same thing.
Regards,
--Wes
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It is not all one community. We live OUTSIDE the boundries of Wrightwood, in an unincorporated area of Los Angeles County, that is now part of the National Monument. They excluded Wrightwood from National Monument status. From all the phone calls I have made, our property sits in the National Monument. How can Wrightwood be excluded from National Monument status, yet my property can reside in both? Its not the same as saying someone who lives on Apple or Spruce wants different treatment. It is people in one county being roped into a government agency and taxed by that government agency in another county.
You still have not clarified when the CSD will get the funds and the program from San Bernardino County or the date that will take place. As I said previously, it was stated at your own meeting that San Bernardino County is pushing back on handing over the program to the CSD. Has that changed since Thursday night?
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Are there any streetlights in the LA county side of Wrightwood?
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I am not aware of any.
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You still have not clarified when the CSD will get the funds and the program from San Bernardino County or the date that will take place. As I said previously, it was stated at your own meeting that San Bernardino County is pushing back on handing over the program to the CSD. Has that changed since Thursday night?
Yes it's true the County is being stubborn about CSA-56 money. Solid waste was never part of CSA-56. CSA-56 had spent some money on a few things that they shouldn't have and are agreeing to giving back 12K so far. There is much more to go on that but it is nothing to do with Solid Waste, that is different income and expense not ever controlled by CSA-56. I don't have actual date in which the County will hand us back some of the CSA-56 money. But we're working on it.
Regards,
--Wes
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Thank you for answering. So to clarify, it is possible that the county may not release the solid waste fee or dump card fee to the Wrightwood CSD, as it was never controlled by CSA-56? This would mean that San Bernardino county would keep the unused portion of the fee collected. Yet if this resolution passes for the LA County side, the fees collected from LA County residents would be released to the Wrightwood CSD. At that point, the LA County residents would be paying into the CSD with the dump card monies, but the same monies collected for the dump program from San Bernardino would stay with the county, not the CSD?
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in an unincorporated area of Los Angeles County, that is now part of the National Monument. They excluded Wrightwood from National Monument status.
That's not a correct statement. No private property falls within the National Monument. LA County portion of Wrightwood is no different than the San Bernardino County portion of Wrightwood in regards to the National Monument. Both are surrounded or adjacent to the National Monument.
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So to clarify, it is possible that the county may not release the solid waste fee or dump card fee to the Wrightwood CSD, as it was never controlled by CSA-56?
No the County has no say on whether the CSD should get it or not, this is why it's so much easier. The Tax Collection office just deals with the CSD directly, no County employee outside of the Tax collection office controls it. It goes from the Tax collector that does NOT act as a referee and wires it over to the CSD bank account.
This would mean that San Bernardino county would keep the unused portion of the fee collected.
This is what they used to do.. but now this money goes to the Wrightwood CSD. In fact none of the money they collected for the Solid Waste assessment went to CSA-56.
Regards,
--Wes
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Again, thank you for the replies. Why then at the meeting was it stated that the county was pushing back on handing over the program and the money from that program to the CSD?
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Again, thank you for the replies
It's no problem, I will try my best to answer the questions. I might get it wrong as I am learning myself how it all fits together..
Again, thank you for the replies. Why then at the meeting was it stated that the county was pushing back on handing over the program and the money from that program to the CSD?
Because they are on what they controlled.. CSA-56 money.. NOT Solid waste, different account, different money.
Regards,
--Wes
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That's not a correct statement. No private property falls within the National Monument. LA County portion of Wrightwood is no different than the San Bernardino County portion of Wrightwood in regards to the National Monument. Both are surrounded or adjacent to the National Monument.
Thank you for that information - I will have to research that further! When I went to the meetings, I was told by several officials that my property WAS located within the National Monument designation. If they have changed from what I have been told, that would be great!
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Because they are on what they controlled.. CSA-56 money.. NOT Solid waste, different account, different money.
It is my understanding that dump cards were just issued for San Bernardino County that run July 1, 2017 to June 2018. If the CSD is going to take over that program, wouldn't the money have already been remitted to the county? It would then not be a straight, easy get the money from the taxing agency as you have mentioned. You would still have to get what has already been remitted to the county. If any dump cards were used during this transition period, who pays, the county or the CSD? I think there is a lot on unanswered questions as to how all of it is going to work. Regardless of the points on both sides of accessing the fee to LA County residents, perhaps the CSD should concentrate on resolving the issue in their own county before imposing it on others in another county.
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Guess it's gonna be a while before that kumbaya One Town thing happens...
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Ok Cheapskate, I did laugh at that one. Short of listening to the audio of last night's meeting.. does anyone have a summary of what they decided? cheryl o7o
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Are there any streetlights in the LA county side of Wrightwood?
You are inside the boundary of the monument, just as you are inside the boundary of the Angeles National Forest. Generally the Angeles NF is in LA County and San Bernardino National Forest is in San Bernardino County. It really only pertains to fire response areas. If your property is inside the Forest boundary, then you are in an FPA, Wrightwood is under County protection and SRA. It doesn't matter a bit regarding the CSA. The Monument is in LA County because the Forest lands it was created from are in LA county.
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Since it's all about fairness, and the CSD's mandate is Solid Waste, the Board should consider adding a Solid Waste fee of $3.51 to all WW San Bernardino County properties for recycling and green waste programs.
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That is a different issue, this is about the dump card and fees
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You are inside the boundary of the monument, just as you are inside the boundary of the Angeles National Forest. Generally the Angeles NF is in LA County and San Bernardino National Forest is in San Bernardino County. It really only pertains to fire response areas. If your property is inside the Forest boundary, then you are in an FPA, Wrightwood is under County protection and SRA. It doesn't matter a bit regarding the CSA. The Monument is in LA County because the Forest lands it was created from are in LA county.
I have no idea what you just said, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong on several things. None of us are "inside the boundary" of any Forest. I own my land. Sure, the Forest is around us, but we are not part of it.
This map from the Forest Service, shows that the boundary of the National Monument goes to roughly the Mountain High area, and does NOT include any portion of the LA County side of Wrightwood. This is a pretty detailed map, so save it to your computer, and zoom in: https://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/sangabriel/san-gabriel-10-21-14.pdf (https://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/sangabriel/san-gabriel-10-21-14.pdf)
My question simply asked if there were any street lights in the LA county portion of Wrightwood. I ask, because part of my (SB County) tax dollars pays for the street lights in the SB County portion of Wrightwood. If there are streetlights in the LA County side of Wrightwood, that are part of the 23 or however many streetlights it was that are now under CSD control, I'm wondering if the CSD will need to pay the electric bill for those lights. If so, LA County better be reimbursing the CSD for that.
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Since it's all about fairness, and the CSD's mandate is Solid Waste, the Board should consider adding a Solid Waste fee of $3.51 to all WW San Bernardino County properties for recycling and green waste programs.
I agree, but we have to keep one thing in mind: the Community Services District is only responsible for things like park maintenance that the former San Bernardino County CSA-56 handled. For example, the CSD is not responsible for law enforcement, that's still handled by the respective Sheriffs' offices.
I know those are extreme examples -- the exact areas that they have (and do not have) responsibility for are here on the forum.
If there is a fee imposed by and in L.A. County for a service that lies outside the CSD bailiwick, then the CSD cannot provide that service to S.B. county residents, and cannot impose a fee for something we don't get.
An earlier post suggested that this was not related to trash, but with how L.A. County deals with hazardous waste.
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These are all good questions. I'm sure the new G.M. and the Board of the WCSD will have answers for you soon.
By my reading, the $3.51 fee imposed on L.A. County residents of the WCSD is for recycling and hazardous waste in L.A. County. Those services are incorporated into the $80+ fee that SBD County residents pay and we get the dump card for use as well. I would think the $3.51 fee for L.A. residents would go away once the billing and transfer of funds to the WCSD are in place. Plus, L.A. County residents will be able to use the recycling and hazardous waste disposal facilities. Course, L.A. County residents will have to pay the $85+ fee. So, I can see why there is a gripe.
A couple of other points that should be considered are: 1) Where do L.A. County residents go now for dump disposal, recycling and hazardous waste disposal? Isn't the Phelan dump a lot closer? Or, are L.A. residents using the Phelan dump and paying a fee each time?
2) Is CR&R the franchise waste hauler for the L.A. County residents? Does the new district require a transfer of services? I believe there is a 'franchise fee' that CR&R pays to the PPHCSD. I'm not sure how that is handled administratively. There is a line item for it in the PPHCSD budget. Therefore, there should be one in the WCSD budget. Or, I'm wrong. I try to humble when that happens.
Girlfarmer: You made a good suggestion. But, in this instance, I don't think the 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' concept works. The $3.51 for L.A. County residents should go away.
Me: I would gladly pay a little extra for roadside recycling when my trash is picked up. I did have curbside recycling when I lived in L.A. and I loved it and that was the bin that was always full. cheryl o7o
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The very real question is where does it stop? Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees. No pie left for me, or whatever is left for me is now a mess. Death by a thousand little cuts. It's getting to the point of it's not worth it to earn it. Taxes and fees should be to cover necessities, and nothing else. Shame on the County of San Bernardino for initiating the dump fee with the excuse of cleaning up the desert in the first place. The offenders should be punished, not everyone. I would love to see some before and after numbers of the effectiveness. It's all just an excuse to take someone's money without a justification for what it's spent on.Seems to be the current accepted practice in the State. I don't worry too much. In time, the pendulum swings just as hard the other way. Just look at the national political picture.
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By my reading, the $3.51 fee imposed on L.A. County residents of the WCSD is for recycling and hazardous waste in L.A. County. Those services are incorporated into the $80+ fee that SBD County residents pay and we get the dump card for use as well. I would think the $3.51 fee for L.A. residents would go away once the billing and transfer of funds to the WCSD are in place. Plus, L.A. County residents will be able to use the recycling and hazardous waste disposal facilities. Course, L.A. County residents will have to pay the $85+ fee. So, I can see why there is a gripe.
Not exactly but close.. the $3.51 is just a completely separate fee not related to solid waste that the CSD has power over. LA just has a completely separate fee associated with Hazardous household items. San Bernardino doesn't have that fee at all. Much in the same way that there is a Park Rec fee in LA that has to do with a regional park that was built and nothing to do with the general Parks and Rec fee.
Me: I would gladly pay a little extra for roadside recycling when my trash is picked up. I did have curbside recycling when I lived in L.A. and I loved it and that was the bin that was always full. cheryl o7o
Maybe I'm not understanding this.. doesn't CR&R already provide a recycling can? I know I have one.
Regards,
--Wes
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The very real question is where does it stop? Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees. No pie left for me, or whatever is left for me is now a mess. Death by a thousand little cuts. It's getting to the point of it's not worth it to earn it. Taxes and fees should be to cover necessities, and nothing else. Shame on the County of San Bernardino for initiating the dump fee with the excuse of cleaning up the desert in the first place. The offenders should be punished, not everyone. I would love to see some before and after numbers of the effectiveness. It's all just an excuse to take someone's money without a justification for what it's spent on.Seems to be the current accepted practice in the State. I don't worry too much. In time, the pendulum swings just as hard the other way. Just look at the national political picture.
If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.
If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.
If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.
If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.
I think that list is complete. Just those four topics.
There is a long list of things like road maintenance, flood control, fire and police services that we pay for through taxes to our respective counties that are not controlled by the CSD, but are on our respective tax bills (not necessarily property tax, either).
It seems that the one narrow issue here is the $85 I pay as a San Bernardino resident (and the dump card I get). If I lived in L.A. County, I would not pay that fee, and I would not be able to take trash to a dump in San Bernardino County.
Expanding that to other fees for other purposes is outside the scope of the WWCSD charter.
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Hi Girlfarmer,
The very real question is where does it stop? Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees.
I completely understand and have made the complaint myself over the years. But in this case the fees from the SB Dump cards are coming back to Wrightwood to be used directly in the town instead of just being absorbed by the largest County in the USA. It is true that it will be new for LA County Wrightwood residents. But that money does go to the CSD so you know how it is being spent.. As we get up and going with better online reporting you will know exactly how it is spent. Not so true for the rest our property tax I have to say..
I it is very exciting to not have to beg the County to properly maintain the community building or to fix something in a timely manner. I also like the idea that anyone in town can come to a meeting and make a difference with this money.. that people can be elected locally on the board and make their voices heard and have a real effect.
If you disagree with me or anyone on the board you have the ability to fire us. If I am doing a terrible job I deserve nothing less!
Regards,
--Wes
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Wes... no here in Pinon Hills I do not receive a recycling can. I have two trash cans for household waste and pay $70+ for three months of weekly pickup. I also rent a bin from CR&R and pay $112+ a month for weekly pickup for that. I use it for the horses and yard cleanup debris. cheryl o7o
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Quote: "If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.
If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.
If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.
If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.
I think that list is complete. Just those four topics."
Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things. In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money. Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay! If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon. The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.
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Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things. In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money. Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay! If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon. The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.
The dump card fees or the 85.14 charged to each residential parcel went to the County and WW never saw it. WW Residents already paying this.
The CR&R Franchise fees also went straight to the County and WW never saw it. WW Residents don't pay an extra fee (No government tax or fee) for this but it is built into everyone that is paying into CR&R.
The CSA-56 Money collected from parcels for general property tax wasn't wisely spent in my opinion.. they were late on a lot of bills for example.. they were always behind.
The CSD assessed the 111 LA County WW parcels to bring them into parity with the SB side, so everyone is the same for the $85.14 per parcel dump card.
It really is bringing back a lot of funds already paid to the County back to WW. It should be enough to fix long neglected items in the bathrooms, the community building and so on. There should be enough money to make improvements.
It will take a few months to get the funds outlined above.. WW won't see very much in the way of funds until December/January but we have enough to maintain what we have for now.
Regards,
--Wes
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Is there any limitation or regulation controlling what the funds generated by the $85+ solid waste tax/fee can be spent on? It would appear to me that neither the county nor the CSD has carte blanch to spend $$ on anything that doesn't pertain to solid waste issues?
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Quote: "If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.
If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.
If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.
If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.
I think that list is complete. Just those four topics."
Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things. In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money. Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay! If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon. The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.
It's always good to cite the quote so the author knows he's been quoted.
I'm not pro-CSD, I'm not against the CSD, but we do need a realistic idea of what it is when we discuss it. We should have had a realistic idea of what it is when we went to the polls.
I grew up in a family where small local agencies and their funding was a constant discussion. In our home, it was schools.
Proposition 13 put a huge cap on what districts could do, setting a limit in California of 1% of the assessed value, and a 2% increase per year.
An organization like the CSD can't raise taxes above that limit, and since SBC and LAC (and every other county in California) is already at or above the limit, the only way to raise taxes is by a 2/3rds vote of the registered voters.
Fees are a separate issue.
In theory, our Drivers' License fees pay for the DMV to issue drivers' licenses. If it's a fee, it's not supposed to raise more than it costs to provide the service.
One thing we should be able to see once the CSD financials are available, is how much is collected in dump fees, and how much is then billed by the County for trash services. I don't have a problem for example if we're paying for trash collection during the upcoming car show, or Mountaineer days. I wouldn't mind if some of the "snow play" trash gets picked up using that money.
So, I'd have to disagree that we've voted a new taxing authority per-se. We certainly have an organization that can levy fees, and there is a legal difference between a tax and a fee.
We also have a local meeting where we can find out about any proposed new fees, and at least two mechanisms to block new fees, and a set of Board Members that we can vote out.
Dump cards for L.A. County Wrightwood Residents was part of the proposal when we voted on the CSD.
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One thing we should be able to see once the CSD financials are available, is how much is collected in dump fees, and how much is then billed by the County for trash services. I don't have a problem for example if we're paying for trash collection during the upcoming car show, or Mountaineer days. I wouldn't mind if some of the "snow play" trash gets picked up using that money.
I'm in total agreement. Everyone should have access and be totally clear on exactly where all monies are spent. I really can't wait till we get to this, I feel the CSD owes it to the community. Everyone should see how the levers are pulled, how the buttons are pushed and exactly how it works.
Regards,
--Wes
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Regarding the costs for solid waste collection, everyone should also be aware of the State's strict recycling compliance and reporting laws. I'm not sure if the County or the CSD will be responsible for this reporting, but there is a lot of time involved for planning and education and keeping businesses and the CSD/County in compliance. I am a waste consultant and have seen jurisdictions fined significant amounts for non-compliance (by CalRecycle). You need to know it's not just our trash pickup and the occasional event clean up, there are other costs that may be incurred - either by the County, the CSD now that they are collecting the fees, or by CR&R. Before signing a new CR&R agreement, you should be sure everyone is on the same page with who is responsible for what regarding CalRecycle compliance, education and reporting.
There is mandatory commercial recycling and mandatory organics recycling:
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Recycle/Commercial/Organics/
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/recycle/commercial/
Because Wrightwood is in a remote area, there may be options for exemption. But CalRecycle is pretty strict and want to see efforts are being made to work towards these mandates.