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Public Forums => San Gabriel Mtns Flora - Fauna => Topic started by: Cardinal on Oct 15, 05, 08:04:41 AM

Title: Local Hunting
Post by: Cardinal on Oct 15, 05, 08:04:41 AM
While trying my luck at Jackson Lake the past few mornings, I have seen three or four pickups with kennels in the bed and hound looking dogs riding on top go by slowly on N4 in both directions.  I assume that these are hounds (by their barking and braying) and also assume that the gentlemen were driving to have the dogs scent a bear or lion..at whcih point they would release the dogs.

Anyone heard of this in our area?  I don't know if it is bear season or if the men just run the bear until it trees and take photos (?).
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angiepoo on Oct 15, 05, 08:21:07 AM
How sad is that.  If this is true, people shouldn't be allowed to use hounds for huntin.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: justme on Oct 15, 05, 10:32:13 AM
It was just a regular truck? No company name or government symbol on it? Hum, how strange.  ???
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: phoenixgirl on Oct 15, 05, 05:27:54 PM
HI,

I'm curious if hunting is legal around here, because a few times I have seen a man parked on Lone Pine take a rifle out of his truck?  The last time was about a week ago at the top of Lone Pine Canyon.  I really hope this is a freak thing as I have seen deer in that area.  Any info would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: clint on Oct 15, 05, 06:25:37 PM
Yes it is.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wrightwood on Oct 15, 05, 07:04:48 PM
Bear season opened last weekend and dogs are permitted to hunt bear.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Oct 16, 05, 05:22:27 PM
There is a family that works at a camp inthe Jackson Lake area that has sled dogs. These may have been the dogs you saw.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Surfer_Dude on Oct 16, 05, 05:27:00 PM
I heard what I thought was a gun shot in the distance this morning.  Sounded like ahunting rifle caliber.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Oct 16, 05, 06:03:11 PM
There is definitely a hunting season here.
Don't wear antlers or a bear suit when you hike.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: MojaveSidecar on Oct 16, 05, 09:15:36 PM
Just came up from Burbank to spend the next few nights working and relaxing here in WW. We came up LPC, then right on Sheeps Creek, then left on Thrush, then right on LPC again, then left on Twin Lakes, right on Oriole and then to Edna. I was driving an UHaul truck and my wife was following in the car.
Anyhow, as we were driving down Edna (but it also could of been Oriole) we passed a pickup truck that looked like it had a dead bear in the back. I went by quickly enough that I only caught a glimpse of it out of the corner of my eye. When we got to the cabin, my wife asked me if I saw the bear in the back of the pickup truck aways back. I said I thought so...so she saw something also.

Anybody know whats going on? Could our local bears be hunting victims? Have not heard anybody post any bear sightings  lately. Could this be why?

Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Cardinal on Oct 16, 05, 11:41:06 PM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Cardinal on Oct 16, 05, 11:46:17 PM
You can hunt deer (currently season is open)  Bear, coyote, bobcat, quail, rabbit, squirrel and fox.  You are seeing deer hunters.  Now is not a good time to go horseback riding in this area.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: ChattyCathy on Oct 17, 05, 01:20:50 AM
You can hunt deer (currently season is open)  Bear, coyote, bobcat, quail, rabbit, squirrel and fox.  You are seeing deer hunters.  Now is not a good time to go horseback riding in this area.

That makes me very sad.  Why would anyone hunt a squirrel -- or a coyote, for that matter?  What do they do with them?  Are there that many bears, bobcats, and foxes around here?  I would have thought they were protected.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: clint on Oct 17, 05, 06:43:20 AM
Mt. Lion and Bighorn are protected.
The number of Deer and Bear taken are controlled through the tag structure.
Deer hunting is needed to control populations.
Most hunters that buy a license and tags never get an animal, and the funds from hunting go right back into the Department of Fish and Game to pay for conservation of other species.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Adrienne on Oct 17, 05, 06:50:32 AM
I don't know anything about hunting except I don't agree with it. Why would someone want a gallbladder from a bear? I really don't understand.
And Pleeeeese don't anyone respond to my not agreeing with hunting. It's just what I believe, I'm not trying to incite anything or insult anyone. I know people who hunt responsibly and respectfully and I respect their right to do so.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Rojiin on Oct 21, 05, 10:24:28 PM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Rojiin on Oct 21, 05, 10:32:52 PM
You can hunt deer (currently season is open) Bear, coyote, bobcat, quail, rabbit, squirrel and fox. You are seeing deer hunters. Now is not a good time to go horseback riding in this area.

Yeah really...a few years back in one of the hunting mags...there was an article about dumb hunters, and one of the hunters shot and killed a game wardens horse which was completely decked out in bright orange...oh yeah the game warden was on the horse at the time ??? , the hunter said it looked like a deer :stupid:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Oct 21, 05, 10:54:38 PM
Many cultures value various parts of animal bodies as medicine or having special properties.  It is one of the reasons that so many African and Asian wild animals are approaching extinction.  They are being hunted for "parts"....like Rhino horn or Tiger male thing.  Some believe that certain parts are an aphrodisiac.  A singe Bear gall bladder can fetch almost a thousand dollars in some Asian markets.  Claws, teeth and other specific body parts are ground up and used in Asian medicines.

Many times, the bear will found with only the gall bladder missing. 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 04, 06, 09:18:54 AM
 
  A Rancher friend was telling me of an encounter she had out by N4 and Largo Vista with some Bear Hunters last fall...I couldn't believe it.

   They had a big pick-up with 6 dog kennels in the back. They would send 1 dog out at a time to find, then track a bear. The dogs had satellite posistioning collars on. One would run down the bear until exhausted...then another fresh dog would be put on the trail. 
   
      They would track the "hunt" from the cab of the pick-up with a device like a radar screen and when the activity  came to a halt...meaning the bear was exhausted and treed...The men would go in and shoot it. They had one bear in their truck already. And one lost dog.
   
   She told them they weren't hunters...They were playing Nintendo.   How one sided...The bears didn't stand a chance.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: justme on Apr 04, 06, 09:45:17 AM
  "She told them they weren't hunters...They were playing Nintendo"
Yup, sheesh. and that's all I'm going to say about that.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Apr 04, 06, 10:20:20 AM
Please wwpt don't EVEN get me started on hunters.....
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 04, 06, 11:48:51 AM
Same group I saw at Jackson Lake early in the season.  They drove up and down N4 with the dogs on top of the kennels.  When they started braying, they let the dogs go.

Nothing wrong with hunting.  Depends on how you look at it.  I haven't picked up a gun since the second tour in VN.  Personal choice...I don't begrudge those who hunt for meat or even, relaxation, as long as they show respect for the creatures they hunt.  Many find that they enjoy just getting out for the "process" of hunting regardless of whether they shoot anything or not.  Not much difference between a person shooting a deer for the venison and a hawk taking a rabbit to feed his family.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angiepoo on Apr 04, 06, 01:47:31 PM
My feelings too!  If you are going to eat it then great.  But shooting it for the sport angers me.  And in my oppinion, using a gun for hunting isn't real hunting.  Try using a bow instead.  Now that's hunting!
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Apr 04, 06, 02:04:36 PM
hunting for relaxation?? 

what is that about... 

oh i'm stressed lemm go out and shot a defenseless animal  (that may have a family to feed also)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 04, 06, 02:28:56 PM
Cinchy-A bow requires a better stalk for sure, but oftentimes the kill may not be as swift or clean as a bullet.  The animal must often be trailed for long distances as it slowly bleeds to death.

Hunting/fishing is a process.  Anticipation of getting out in the woods...planning the the logistics...being with good friends...enjoying the beauty of the out of doors...smelling cowboy coffee boiled in a battered old pot. The relaxation comes not from killing something but from being
in a wonderful place away from the hustle and bustle of daily life. 

For many folks, going deer hunting has been a family tradition for over half a century.  Getting together often overshadows whether you kill a deer or not.  With the folks I grew up with, it was a something you did with respect for the animals.  As I said, I have not fired a shot at a living thing since my return from my second tour in Viet Nam.  I buy my meat from the grocery store. (Have you ever been to a slaughter house?  It is not a pretty place.  There is no respect for the animal). I feed hundreds of wild animals on our place. 

Don't know if getting all excited because there are millions of hunters across our nation is productive.  Certainly nothing to lose any sleep over.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 04, 06, 04:04:08 PM
 
   I think what struck me as so unfair about this is that Bear meat is notoriously terrible eating, therefore I concluded they were killing for all the wrong reasons....ie ...a bear head hanging over a fireplace or the thrill of the hunt only. Maybe re-sale of the expensive bladders to the oriental community?
 
  If they're going to match wits and derive their pleasure from stalking and tracking, They sure incorporated alot of technology that makes it not even a challenge.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: MazzyStar on Apr 04, 06, 04:16:09 PM
Questions:

Don't you have to have a hunting permit which specifies what game is allowed to be hunted at what time?
Is there ever a "bear" season?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wrightwood on Apr 04, 06, 04:55:10 PM
I've merged the recent topic and previous one on the same subject.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: K9luvr on Apr 04, 06, 05:58:03 PM

   I think what struck me as so unfair about this is that Bear meat is notoriously terrible eating, therefore I concluded they were killing for all the wrong reasons....

Um, I've eaten bear meat and it was actually quite tasty.  I won't eat it now for personal reasons.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Apr 04, 06, 06:01:15 PM
"Have you ever been to a slaughter house?  It is not a pretty place.  There is no respect for the animal."

You've got that right!  :'(
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: K9luvr on Apr 04, 06, 06:23:17 PM
If you buy kosher meat you know it was killed swiftly and with respect.  That is part of rabbinic law.  But it does have a lot of salt in it because they heavily salt the meat to get rid of most of the blood.  The slaughterhouse has to be overseen by an orthodox rabbi. 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Apr 04, 06, 06:30:05 PM
I have no problem hunting for meat. I am a meat-eater. I agree that buying meat is no worse than hunting and as some have pointed out, even more inhumane.

I do have a problem with the kind of hunting mentioned here. That is not hunting. It is a disgrace and no regard for the animal they are killing.

I DO HAVE a HUGE problem with hunting predators. Unless there is some reason that they are overpopulating an area (due, of course, to mismanagement, as Mother Nature doesn't usually let this happen) then maybe I would relent.

Hunters donate lots of money to wildlife management. I know duck stamps go a long way towards habitat preservation. So there is an upside to hunters.

Man has been hunting game as long as he has had the tools to do so. Hunting itself is not evil. But the way it is carried out is just sacrilegious sometimes.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 04, 06, 06:51:17 PM
Yes, you have to have a permit and there is an exclusive season when bears may be taken.  The Black Bear population in our mountains is stable and some say, growing.  Very few bears are taken in our mountains...most folks don't have the savvy to get close enough.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Apr 04, 06, 06:58:31 PM
Yes Wildman I have, I actually was married to a butcher for many years so I have seen alot of meat.  LOL

The only way I feel okay about hunting is if you are doing it to feed your family out of need, like wild animals do. 

I eat meat but rarely. I feel to over stuffed when I do, it is typically hamburger meat in spaghetti sauce or an occasional burger. 

 I do not care for the whole trophy hunter, kill just to kill HE-MAN hunters.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Surfer_Dude on Apr 04, 06, 07:45:51 PM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 04, 06, 08:23:37 PM
This thread was merged, I believe, with an earlier one which might give the impression that folks are still out there hunting.
If they are, they're poaching.


 "I do not care for the whole trophy hunter, kill just to kill HE-MAN hunters."

Who does?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: kew on Apr 04, 06, 08:47:35 PM
hunting for relaxation?? 

what is that about... 

oh i'm stressed lemm go out and shot a defenseless animal  (that may have a family to feed also)

A REAL hunter, when hunting for relaxation, uses a camera. :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: phoenixgirl on Apr 04, 06, 10:21:25 PM
Oh, this makes me sad.  I saw those guys last fall when I was at Jackson lake.  They were driving down hwy 2.  I understand hunting, don't like it, THAT does not sound like hunting to me.  What can we do if they are acting outside of the hunting laws?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 05, 06, 02:09:00 PM
You can report it to Fish and Game in Long Beach.  They are extremely short on officers.  Our resident Fish and Game officer retired and his replacement is dealing with development issues as they relate to streams and creeks.   They will probably thank you for the report and not send anyone out.  LA County Sheriff could enforce gross violations but....there is no LA County Sheriff that will be patrolling that area.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 06, 06, 11:21:22 PM
 
 
  I'll bet those guys skirt around the Law by having 6 guys and 3 trucks and therefore are allowed the 6 dogs working in tandem to run the bears. Game Warden probably already has met these folks and stood by helplessly as the letter of the Law was not being violated.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Wildman on Apr 07, 06, 12:11:23 AM
Trust me....no game warden spoke with them.  If you knew just how few wardens there are available for enforcement, you would be shocked.  They are spread very thin.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: MazzyStar on Apr 07, 06, 07:03:42 AM
My x-Father In Law was a Game Warden in Long Beach in the 80's and 90's before he was killed (by his wife - not on the job).
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 08, 06, 10:27:06 AM

    I mailed off a question to the DFG info office and asked for their opinion on this.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: K9luvr on Apr 08, 06, 10:02:10 PM
Somebody needs to tell these good ol' boys that they bought a hunting licence, not a killing licence....  ::) ;D :P :-*
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: SteelCommuter on Apr 09, 06, 04:20:34 PM
BTW, for those on this thread who have strong feelings about the absurdity of the modern trophy hunter - who gets his coffee from Starbucks, not a battered pot - you may want to read the very very funny novel Sick Puppy by Carl Hiaasen.  I laughed so hard at that book my lung came out.  My wife and my mom both loved the book, as well.  I couldn't recommend it enough.

For the record, I appreciate the effort by some to keep a skill like true hunting alive , when it is essentially useless in regions with industrialized food production, etc.  The description of the incident mentioned in this thread as Nintendo could not be more aptly named, and is more of a gadget game than anything else.  I never ever see those people out in the woods in the off-season, either, or hiking instead of driving when there is a choice.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: K9luvr on Apr 09, 06, 09:07:50 PM
I LOVED that book!!!!  A friend bought it and at first I thought I don't know....  But once I started it--it was great  :2thumbsup:

Plus--it really does make you think. 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 10, 06, 09:05:58 AM
 Here's the reply I recieved promptly from The Long Beach Field offfice of DFG.
_______________________________________

  Using dogs is a legal means to take bears, but the use of satellite
global positioning system collars is specifically prohibited by
Subsection 265(d)(2) of Title 14, California Code of Regulations. I'll
be sure our Enforcement Branch gets a copy of your e-mail. There may be
follow-up on this.

Thanks for letting us know.

>>> "XXXXXX@hotmail.com> 4/8/2006 10:24:18 AM >>>

I'm reprinting a letter to the WW forum and was interested in your
opinion of this type of hunting and if it is legal. 
A Rancher friend was telling me of an encounter she had out by N4 and
Largo Vista with some Bear Hunters last fall...I couldn't believe it.

   They had a big pick-up with 6 dog kennels in the back. They would
send 1 dog out at a time to find, then track a bear. The dogs had
satellite posistioning collars on. One would run down the bear until
exhausted...then another fresh dog would be put on the trail. 
   
      They would track the "hunt" from the cab of the pick-up with a
device like a radar screen and when the activity  came to a
halt...meaning the bear was exhausted and treed...The men would go in
and shoot it. They had one bear in their truck already. And one lost
dog.
   
   She told them they weren't hunters...They were playing Nintendo. 
How one sided...The bears didn't stand a chance.
 
here's a link to the whole thread.
 http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,4059.30.html
   Thanks,   XXXXXXX


Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 12, 06, 05:15:23 AM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Surfer_Dude on Apr 12, 06, 06:23:27 AM
Thanks for all the work WWPT, Big K to you.  If anyone wants to video tape these hunters I'll bet they will be back at the same spots first day of hunting season. We probably could get some kind of enforcement on them, and at least give the bears their sporting chance.  If these hunters are breaking one law, they are probably breaking a few more.  I don't think I would ever shoot a bear for sport but this is sad, it ruins the sport for real hunters. 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Apr 12, 06, 07:11:32 AM
Pictures would be good. Lots of them. Including the license plate.

"The Monkeywrench Gang"  That's a good book.  :)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Hillbillies on Apr 12, 06, 10:47:54 AM
 :aninotes:

Just some good ol boys.....
Who don't play by the rules....

sittin' in their truck playin video huntin' like a couple o fools...

Makin' their waaaay the only way they know how....
heard em' say the other day they're gonna go hunt for a cow... :eyebrows:

Just some good ol boys....
Cheatin' without no care....

I hope these two dumb a$$es get eatin' by a big mean ol bear.... >:(

 :aninotes:

Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 12, 06, 11:20:26 AM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: TheSandman on Apr 12, 06, 11:33:42 PM
hillbilly:

do you have clothes on when you write your songs?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 13, 06, 12:11:21 AM
 
  Quote:  We probably could get some kind of enforcement on them, and at least give the bears their sporting chance.  If these hunters are breaking one law, they are probably breaking a few more.  I don't think I would ever shoot a bear for sport but this is sad..
 
  Maybe we could put the collars on them, and then give a ten minute head start, and show them what they are doing to others...
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: free2bee on Apr 13, 06, 06:24:30 AM
Just got back from a visit to Grand Canyon. Many times we were reminded of our favorite Edward Abbey quote. He is depicting the "average visitor" to our natural wonders found in the Parks who breathlessly run up to the nearest ranger and ask...... "Where- is -the -restroom- where -is -the -coke -machine -and -how -long- does -it take -to -see -this -place?"
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: TheSandman on Apr 14, 06, 12:57:56 AM
while standing at the edge of the grand canyon, a family walked up, stood there about ten seconds and said in a disgusted tone, "Is that all there is."

Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Apr 14, 06, 07:58:04 AM
And then there's the rednecks' one time Grand Canyon experience:

"Hey, Bubba! Watch thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!"

(http://masaka.cs.ohiou.edu/~mramadas/pictures/GC-LV/grand-canyon-mountain-goat.jpg)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: K9luvr on Apr 14, 06, 06:25:06 PM
There is a Flinstones segment where the family goes on vacation.  Fred and Barney are standing by this creek about the size of Swarthout creek.  Fred says to Barney--gee it doesn't look so great to me (or something to that affect) and Barney replies, "hey, give it a couple of million years and I bet it will really be something." 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 15, 06, 12:15:28 AM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 16, 06, 08:00:46 PM
 
   Here's a link showing some animal activists out doing their work...Sandman..he kinda looks like you?
 
 
     http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=635398409&n=2
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: TheSandman on Apr 16, 06, 11:17:41 PM
indeed he does.

i once tried out for a running back position in the nfl but they told me i'd ruin the game.  final scores of 717-10 wouldn't fly with the fans.





 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Apr 17, 06, 06:31:03 AM
 

    Now that's dedication....and a good set of wheels.. ;D
 
 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Nov 22, 06, 04:51:43 AM
 
   Last time I checked, the beef herds for food were self sustaining and growing...no problems there.
 
  Around the 1970's, A red flag alert was implemented in California annd a number of other areas that there were many species about to be decimated, extinct from ever roaming our Mountains again if something wasn't done quickly. As a person that enjoys nature and has been going to the San Gabriels for decades - I wanted my kids to be able to see a deer or a bear firsthand and experience the Mountains as my forefathers did. 
 
   I believe it is all of our responsibility to our children.

   Everytime I hear one of those rifle shots in October up here, I think of one less animal to be preserved in this  dwindling and delicate ecosystem of ours. 
 
    The only place that should be open  for Hunters in 21st Century California is at Knotts Berry Farm, Shooting the never-ending string of Ducks in the Arcade.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: ocgal on Nov 22, 06, 07:11:45 AM
Hunting a sport?  Intelligent humans on quads, with G.P.S. , infrared high powered rifles with scopes, walkies etc. etc., versus a dumb defenseless animal.  Go out there with only a knife and you'll get my respect. And since when did the markets run out of fresh meat!!  :-\

While I personally buy my meat at the market- I wouldn't call it "fresh"...animals raised in captivity to be eaten often times are given growth hormones.  As I have stated before, my husband's family are all hunters- they hunt for their meat because there is a population of wild animals up there to do so.  That is fresh-  no hormones and such. 

I am not anti-hunting if there is a population that sustains it.  There is not in the San Gabriels.  How many of you have seen wild animals up here (other than coyote and raccoons)?  In our (almost) 7 years, I have seen one deer and one bear.  We've camped up here, hiked up here- in comparison, when you drive through Montana there are deer everywhere...you even have to look out for them along the interstate if you can imagine that.  That simply isn't so up here....

  
   Everytime I hear one of those rifle shots in October up here, I think of one less animal to be preserved in this  dwindling and delicate ecosystem of ours. 
 
    The only place that should be open  for Hunters in 21st Century California is at Knotts Berry Farm, Shooting the never-ending string of Ducks in the Arcade.

I totally agree!   :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: GirlFarmer on Nov 22, 06, 10:10:25 AM
This season I saw 36 deer, 6 of which were bucks.  I only saw 1 bear and haven't had one in my trash since Labor day.  I think the dog chasers need to give the area a break for a couple years.  Deer tags are issued based upon a healthy sustaining population.  DFG biologist, I believe, are responsible for determining this.  One of the reasons, I've heard from one DFG employee (unknown if factual), for the lack of field control is the added burden placed upon the DFG by the environmentalists.  They spend all their time counting, confirming, checking environmental reports for every development.
The animals are out there.  You just need to limit your impact to see them and keep your eyes wide open.  I have also shot, with a camera, many sheep in the area.  They seem not to be the wariest (sp) of animals.  I've also heard from a reliable source of areas thick with carcasses (horns included) because of lions.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Nov 22, 06, 10:24:13 AM
And why are predators special?  Unless your particular brand of religion forbids it, all are good for consumption.  I've been the hunted by these creatures more than once.

Wolves, mountain lions, cougars, now tell me you eat these????
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Nov 22, 06, 10:34:03 AM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Surfer_Dude on Nov 22, 06, 10:49:11 AM
As far as predator prey ratio being balanced, I know that the coyote population in America is at an all time high.  Coyotes are in areas of the United States they have never been in before.  The theories behind this are worth googling.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: GirlFarmer on Nov 22, 06, 11:21:47 AM
The State has tracked the deer population since the 1800's.  They are well within the stable range.  Check dfg.ca.gov under hunting, big game, deer management programs.

I don't personally have a need to hunt lions (if it were legal) because I haven't aquired a taste for it.  I don't know how it would taste.  I do know that without the aid of dogs, it would be extremely difficult if not nearly impossible.  It would be good to allow hunting of lions without dogs in order to restore the lions fear of man.  The number killed would probably be insignificant and would benefit bighorn sheep numbers.  But in this State, it will probably never happen.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: KWBoy on Nov 22, 06, 11:27:05 AM
Should this be a whole diffrent topic about hunting?  :-\
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: ChattyCathy on Nov 22, 06, 12:45:44 PM
Yes, it's gotten way off topic.  But it was most likely one or more of these hunters who killed 3, and who knows how many more, bighorn sheep.  Let's not forget that.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: buddy on Nov 22, 06, 06:13:46 PM
I find it ironic that a lot of the hunter bashers are the same people that brag about the steak at the Blue Ridge or can't wait for the new hot dog stand to open.  Was the life of the animal raised for consumption worth less than the one taken in the field?  Most never have a single thought about the animal they are consuming.  Most hunters go through a wide range of emotion and thought when taking life.  Much care is then given while processing.  I know for a fact that you can't help but remember the animal every time you cook the meal from the one you've taken.  How many have had a single care when mowing through your burger?  These kind of fakers make me puke.  I have nothing but respect for true vegetarians, they take action for their convictions.  I've spent many days in the forest this past season and never once did I come across a hunter drinking.  I'm sure many probably did once they got back to their campsites, but not out and about.  I believe that the out of shape drunk hunters described here are a rarity.  Most can keep pace or out hike the typical person.  That said, I know it's true that some don't hunt, but really just need an excuse to get away.
I have also noticed in recent years an influx of hunters from another culture that do not share the same values as we have traditionally in this country.  We grew up with Give a Hoot Don't Pollute and that native american guy crying on the side of the freeway.  This new culture that is taking over doesn't even think twice about throwing granola wrappers or water bottles all over the forest.  This group has shown disrespect for many laws but we must all sit by silently for fear of being branded a racist.
Bottom line....if you're a meat eater, why are you picking on the hunter?  Are you naive as to where the meat on you sandwich came from?  And why is it OK to tell stories of trophy fish caught or lost?  I realize that fishing rods don't shoot.  But how many hunting accidents in relation to the number of hunters out there do you really here about? (Dick Cheney aside).
There are thousands of tags available for D-11 but it never sells out because only 3% are actually successful.   

Very well said I could not agree more. When you purchase your tag for this area  D 11, you are also allowed to hunt in two additional areas, D15 Orange and riverside county and , D13 Ventura county and some of Kern county, So if you  purchase a deer tag in any of  these areas D11, D13, D15 you can hunt in any of them. Since they started this I have noticed a very large increase in hunters in our area.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: AntiFltLndrs on Nov 22, 06, 08:54:46 PM
This topic makes me want to eat a carrot.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: AntiFltLndrs on Nov 22, 06, 08:58:57 PM
Wait, first I'll vote...then I'll eat my carrot
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Nov 22, 06, 10:03:17 PM
 
   D-11, D-13, D-Whatever.....How could you shoot Bambi?  Or Thumper?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Nov 23, 06, 07:31:46 AM
To Quote Funky:
"Should this be a whole diffrent topic about hunting?"

Yes, it should be, so here it is.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: rdnckgrl78 on Nov 24, 06, 01:26:37 PM

   D-11, D-13, D-Whatever.....How could you shoot Bambi?  Or Thumper?

How can you eat a cow, or a chicken, or a fish?  Is it not all the same?  How can one piece of meat be more important than another?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Nov 24, 06, 08:42:04 PM
 
  No, it's not all the same. If you can't distingiuish between Staters shelf meat and loading up a gun and shooting local wildlife, I can't explain it to you.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: rdnckgrl78 on Nov 25, 06, 08:04:49 PM

  No, it's not all the same. If you can't distingiuish between Staters shelf meat and loading up a gun and shooting local wildlife, I can't explain it to you.

The only difference I see is that you are paying someone to kill your meat, and my husband is killing his own.  Yes, we do buy meat from the grocery store but we also shoot our own meat.  It takes much more effort to hunt, kill, cure, chop, and prepare the meat then it does to walk into a store and pay for it.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Big Pines on Dec 09, 06, 11:10:30 AM


The only difference I see is that you are paying someone to kill your meat, and my husband is killing his own.  Yes, we do buy meat from the grocery store but we also shoot our own meat.  It takes much more effort to hunt, kill, cure, chop, and prepare the meat then it does to walk into a store and pay for it.
[/quote]

Very well put rdnckgrl78 I could not agree more :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Nolena on Dec 09, 06, 11:23:51 AM
I think that factory farming is often much more cruel than hunting.
We're just divorced from the reality of where meat comes from.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: kew on Dec 09, 06, 04:42:28 PM
Most people don't realize how our food get to the table. I am neither for nor against hunting but when compared to commercial meat it is important to know how each is obtained. As an example the following sites describe the veal industry. Please note, both of these sites were produced by people in the industry. I purposely avoided sites by the likes of PETA, etc.

http://www.ontarioveal.on.ca/all_about_veal/vealproduction.html

http://www.ontarioveal.on.ca/all_about_veal/housing.html

http://www.vealfarm.com/veal-farm-tour/index.asp
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: wwpt on Dec 15, 06, 08:30:56 AM

    Ted Nugent (Big Hunter Advocate) was being interviewed by a French journalist.The journalist asked,
"What
do you think the last thought is in the head of a deer before you shoot
it?
Is it, `Are you my friend?' or is it `Are you the one who killed my
brother?'"
Nugent replied, "They aren't capable of that kind of thinking.
All
they care about is, 'What am I going to eat next, who am I going to
screw
next, and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the
French."
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 01:14:59 PM
HeeHeeHee!!!!!

Gotta love Mr. Nugent! :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 01:19:30 PM
Most people don't realize how our food get to the table. I am neither for nor against hunting but when compared to commercial meat it is important to know how each is obtained. As an example the following sites describe the veal industry. Please note, both of these sites were produced by people in the industry. I purposely avoided sites by the likes of PETA, etc.

http://www.ontarioveal.on.ca/all_about_veal/vealproduction.html

http://www.ontarioveal.on.ca/all_about_veal/housing.html

http://www.vealfarm.com/veal-farm-tour/index.asp


I refuse to eat veal. It is hideous how they keep the calves. I stopped eating chicken for a while for the same reason, but my love of the meat finally overcame my disgust of their living conditions. I try my best to only buy chicken from Henrys in Rancho as they have free range chicken there. It is not always possible, but I feel better if I support the suppliers that treat the animals in a decent manner.

At least hunted game live a natural life, which is much more humane than any meat raised for the masses.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 02:11:44 PM
HeeHeeHee!!!!!

Gotta love Mr. Nugent! :2thumbsup:

Ted Nugent is a horrible man.  He takes people on wolf hunts for money.  I loathe him.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 02:17:05 PM
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/archived_petitions/168636381.html


AW,

I had no idea........
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: rdnckgrl78 on Dec 15, 06, 05:38:16 PM
Since the early 1990s Nugent has become both popular and criticized for his conservative beliefs and his anti-drug and anti-alcohol stances. He is a national spokesman for the DARE program, advocating the "natural highs" to be found in an outdoor lifestyle. He has also hosted the Ted Nugent Kamp for Kids, which combines a curriculum of hands-on hunting, conservation, archery and a strong anti-drug message aimed mainly at underprivileged inner-city children. He is also a spokesman for the National Field Archers Association, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and Big Brothers Big Sisters of America.

Although he holds libertarian beliefs Second Amendment rights, Nugent has been outspoken in his contempt for drug abuse and drug abusers, stating that his "level of awareness" is what compelled him to "turn down the drooling, puking, dying punks with their drugs and their alcohol and tobacco," claiming to "have busted more hippies' noses than all the narcs in the free world. I hate drug abuse.

I wanted to show that he is not all bad.  When evaluating a individual you can like or dislike aspects of each individual.  I feel it is important to know all of the aspects of the individual before claiming he/she is a bad person.  People do things that I dislike everyday but it does not mean they are bad people. 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: GirlFarmer on Dec 15, 06, 05:50:21 PM
Uncle Ted for Pres. 08
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Hillbillies on Dec 15, 06, 06:36:05 PM
I still have my two Ted Nugent albums.  I just don't have a turn table anymore.....

There are A LOT of men out there WAY worse than old Ted!  I like him a lot more now that I know he has busted hippy noses!  :wink3:

I do not advocate his sport hunting of wolves.

 
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 07:31:46 PM
rdnckgrl78,

You beat me to the punch.I did a little reading about Mr. Nugent and he seems to be the opposite of a horrible man. 

Angelwolf, how do you know this to be true?? The only thing I found when I googled "Ted Nugent wolf" was that petition. That isn't proof of anything. I looked on Snopes but didn't find anything there.

I have always admired Ted Nugent.
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 08:44:55 PM
It's all about hunting for trophies!!!

They even offer taxidermist to hang your trophies on the wall.

GREAT Guy!

http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/ (http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 08:49:23 PM
It's all about hunting for trophies!!!

They even offer taxidermist to hang your trophies on the wall.

GREAT Guy!

http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/ (http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/)

You mean they don't eat the meat??

I find that hard to believe..do they throw the meat out?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 08:57:34 PM
Some of the things I found in Ted's bio:

"Keynote Speaker for Native American Fish & Wildlife Society National
Conference, Anchorage, Alaska, 1995"

"Recipient of 1999 National Arbor Day Conservation Award"

"Appointee, Michigan State Parks Foundation"

"Inducted into the Native American Strongheart Society by the Lakota Sioux,
Northern Cheyenne and Arapahoe Tribes"

"Named Man of the Year by Michigan Recreation and Parks Association"







Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 09:36:47 PM
Yes it must be real hard to hunt wild game on a RANCH that is designed for that.  What sport is that....  Kill an animal confined to a ranch to hang on your wall....
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 15, 06, 10:02:23 PM
Nothing different than killing a cow and using the leather for your jacket. Or a sofa. Or your car seats.

I am speaking in general terms and not saying Angelwolf uses leather!!

I honestly don't get the difference.

I would really like to see more about the story of him and the wolves. Please share where you got this information!!

These game animals are here for us to eat, wear, etc. My guess is they live a pretty good life on the ranch before the predator (man) kills them. Much more humane than how chickens, cows, sheep etc. are raised before we kill them.



Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 10:24:24 PM
Four blackbuck--sleek deer-like animals once indigenous to India and now bred for hunting throughout Texas--made spectacular ballerina leaps across the trail 20 yards in front of the ATV. They were out of season, so Nugent made a gesture as if he were shooting them with a bow.

"There's my idea of fast food," he exclaimed.
Quote from  his site.

Game animals from India BRED for hunting, how is that right?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: rdnckgrl78 on Dec 15, 06, 10:33:56 PM
It's all about hunting for trophies!!!

They even offer taxidermist to hang your trophies on the wall.

GREAT Guy!

http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/ (http://www.tednugentsspiritwildmall.com/)

You mean they don't eat the meat??

I find that hard to believe..do they throw the meat out?

Everything I have ever read about Ted states he does not hunt only for trophies.  I wonder what would happen if no one ever hunted a wolf or a mountain lion, or a bear, or a deer, or a pig, or a etc. again....would it cause a major change in the circle of life?  Would we have more animals becoming extinct?
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 10:58:21 PM
Here are some statements by Ted.  Too crude to post here:

http://www.nocompromise.org/news/000731c.html (http://www.nocompromise.org/news/000731c.html)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 15, 06, 11:18:57 PM
Another article about this wonderful guy....  Read this thru the end, they way he talks is sick....

http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/0398/9803nugent.html (http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/0398/9803nugent.html)

He did offer wolf hunts on ebay for $4000 to raise money for the kids...  They were removed due to the complaints and petitions.  The kids he teaches to hunt.  Did you see the pic of the little blonde girl btw two dead bucks?  Great photo....  :(

In my opinion he is a nasty man.  That is my opinion, just as you have yours.

Have a great weekend...
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Cardinal on Dec 15, 06, 11:57:00 PM
Angelwolf, you seem to be going off on a tangent. Anyone can find anything on the internet to support their contention. I can find negative statements about wolf dogs in a hundred places but you would just dismiss them as those horrible wolf haters. Wolf supporters seem to be unable to accept that there might be people with different ideas then their position.   

Ted Nugent is certainly better then those folks who feel they have to keep a wild animal as a "pet" to fortify sagging egos.  People that like to brag, "I own a Bengal Tiger or Isn't my pet wolf/mountain lion/Wolverine intimidating" are a heck of a lot less honest then Ted.  Never cared for his brand of rock but I certainly respect someone whose convictions are as forthright as his.  At least he is honest about his dealings with animals.

I will have a wonderful weekend, thanks.



Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: Hillbillies on Dec 16, 06, 07:47:42 AM
Angelwolf, you seem to be going off on a tangent. Anyone can find anything on the internet to support their contention. I can find negative statements about wolf dogs in a hundred places but you would just dismiss them as those horrible wolf haters. Wolf supporters seem to be unable to accept that there might be people with different ideas then their position.  


I will have a wonderful weekend, thanks.






 :thumbs:   
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: KWBoy on Dec 16, 06, 09:05:04 AM
State your views then if some one doesn't agree then thats there problem there is no use arguing over the internet with some one. Its hard to change some ones prospective especially over the internet. I'm not going to get in to this topic again. If I'm not mistaken this forum is for information, having a good time, and helping others not debating. Lets all just stop and relax before some one gets put in the forum cage and not let out.  ;D
Have a nice day  ;)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 16, 06, 11:14:36 AM
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: gypsywolf on Dec 16, 06, 04:56:25 PM
If it makes any one feel better, my hubby read the posts and walked away mumbling something about "stubborn women".. ;D
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: RobertW on Dec 16, 06, 07:21:24 PM
State your views then if some one doesn't agree then thats there problem there is no use arguing over the internet with some one. Its hard to change some ones prospective especially over the internet. I'm not going to get in to this topic again. If I'm not mistaken this forum is for information, having a good time, and helping others not debating. Lets all just stop and relax before some one gets put in the forum cage and not let out.  ;D
Have a nice day  ;)

Sounds like we have a new moderator.   ;D   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: kew on Dec 17, 06, 03:02:25 PM
State your views then if some one doesn't agree then thats there problem there is no use arguing over the internet with some one. Its hard to change some ones prospective especially over the internet. I'm not going to get in to this topic again. If I'm not mistaken this forum is for information, having a good time, and helping others not debating. Lets all just stop and relax before some one gets put in the forum cage and not let out.  ;D
Have a nice day  ;)

Sounds like we have a new moderator.   ;D   :thumbs:

Naa. Just a mouthy teenager. ;D
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: hill okie on Dec 17, 06, 03:35:22 PM
Disagree!! I think F.G. has more intellect than MOST of us on this forum!! Keep up the good work Funky!!
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 17, 06, 04:48:07 PM
Every one has a opinion.  I accept that, I was simply stating mine, not fighting with or attacking anyone.... 

I don't like Ted Nugent, simple...  Some of you may, so be it...  Tropy hunting is something I abhor.  No I'm not a vegan, but I don't eat much meat at all.  I love pasta!!!  Anyhoo, if someone is hunting to feed themselves and they use all the animal and do it in a respectful way, fine.  If they hunt to kill, not fine...

Thanks my opinion and I'm sticking to it...

And Cardinal and Hillbilly I hope you have a WONDERFUL evening! 

 ::)
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: angelwolf326 on Dec 17, 06, 05:26:23 PM
Angelwolf, you seem to be going off on a tangent. Anyone can find anything on the internet to support their contention. I can find negative statements about wolf dogs in a hundred places but you would just dismiss them as those horrible wolf haters. Wolf supporters seem to be unable to accept that there might be people with different ideas then their position.   

Ted Nugent is certainly better then those folks who feel they have to keep a wild animal as a "pet" to fortify sagging egos.  People that like to brag, "I own a Bengal Tiger or Isn't my pet wolf/mountain lion/Wolverine intimidating" are a heck of a lot less honest then Ted.  Never cared for his brand of rock but I certainly respect someone whose convictions are as forthright as his.  At least he is honest about his dealings with animals.

I will have a wonderful weekend, thanks.



No tangent, just stating my opinion as we are allowed to do on this forum.  Also not generalizing about hunters as you are about WOLF SUPPORTERS?   Maybe you are the one with a tangent about anything I post?

I don't know of anyone that has a wild animal as a pet, nor anyone with a sagging ego, so I am not sure what that whole statement meant other than to get an argument out of me, but I'll pass on that bait. 

FYI Wolf Mountain Sanctuary does have a few pets that are cats and two dogs and one hamster (rescued).  The rest of the animals that live there are rescued endangered species my friend!
Title: Re: Local Hunting
Post by: rdnckgrl78 on Dec 27, 06, 06:29:51 PM
After hearing a report today that the FDA is ready to approve cloned meat tomorrow, I am more certain that hunting is better then buying meat from the store.