WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => Disaster Awareness & CERT => Topic started by: Wrightwood on Jul 05, 07, 04:57:38 PM
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Today a helicopter spent at least 3 hours flying around Wrightwood while doing reconnaissance work for an upcoming fuel reduction project. The project is known as the Maria Stella project and will include a lot of aerial removal of dead, dying and diseased trees, both standing and unincorporated downed trees.
This cooperative project by San Bernardino County Fire Department, Wrightwood Fire Safe Council and NRCS will treat 771 acres of private property. The includes properties along the Southern portion of Swarthout Valley from the San Bernardino County line to the top of Lone Pine Canyon Rd.
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Here's a map showing the basic areas that will be treated.
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/MariaStella/WestEndMap.JPG)
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I saw the chopper this afternoon quite a bit...
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I saw the helicopter too, but how exactly does aerial removal of trees happen????? :-\
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The trees are cut and then hoisted by the Heavy Lift helicopters to a "deck" or clear area where they are dropped off and loaded onto trucks. Heli-logging is done all over the world and allows timber to be removed without putting in roads. It has a pretty good safety record and there are all kinds of limitations in place specifically for safety.
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What type of helicopter are they using? Sikorsky S64 Air Crane? :wink3:
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http://www.superiorhelicopter.com/heli_logging.php
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Cool, thanx for the explanation. I hope I get to see some of it from a very very very safe distance.
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http://www.superiorhelicopter.com/heli_logging.php
Good site, Ken. The helicopters they fly are made called KMAX and they don't have tail rotors. The two blades on top spin in opposite directions and have little or no torque produced (hence not tail/torque rotor). Whey they fly, they look like their blade speed is very low. They also are pretty quiet. I watched them for a week up at Snow Valley when we were on a fire last summer. They might not be the company that would get the contract, so we might get different type of heavy lift ships.
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It's good to hear they are finally going to get started on this project. Kudos to those that helped make this a reality!! :2thumbsup:
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What is the time line for this project?
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Time line:
The project is currently out to bid.
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Time line:
The project is currently out to bid.
I was under the impression it was past that point. So, does that mean we are still years away? Seems bidding processes take forever.
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RobertW...
This past week had contractors bidding and that's why the helicopter activity.
The next step is awarding the bid and the project is not one that will take an extended time period.
I'll see if I can get Tim Tate to give us a better idea on timing.
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I didn't realize it was in the bidding stage. I just assumed from Ken's earlier post that Superior got the job. I hope whomever gets the job is half as safe as Superior claims to be from their web site. Quite an operation....
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This project was open for bidding for 15 Days. The bidding Period has ended and we have notified the contractor with the lowest bid. That contractor has a couple of days to either accept the contract or decline it.
Superior Helicopter generally is not a logging contractor. They sub contract their helicopter services to the loggers. It will be up to the logger who they choose to higher for the helicopter work as long as they qualify with our department.
The project should start within the next few weeks. However there is the possibility of a few set backs. The helicopters used for logging operations are the same helicopters under contract with the USFS for wildland fires. Depending on fires there could be a delay in areas that require helicopters.
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Thanks Tim for the update!
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I gave that site in response to FG's question about what type of helicopters were used for this kind of logging.
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I've been involved in some helicopter logging in Ketchikan, Ak. I've been looking for my pictures to post on this thread. After cutting the trees they were carried by the helicopter about a 1/2 mile to a barge in the inlet. I'd say the helicopter was unloading logs about every 3 minutes...
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Too bad locals can't receive the wood for fireplaces and wood stoves.
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Too bad locals can't receive the wood for fireplaces and wood stoves.
There has been tons of free/cheap firewood available during the past couple of years and I suspect there will tons more.
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Too bad locals can't receive the wood for fireplaces and wood stoves.
There has been tons of free/cheap firewood available during the past couple of years and I suspect there will tons more.
That's correct... check the ANF website for postings http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/ and stop by the Big Pines information center for information. The trees that are cleared are stored at the "Skating Rink" area on Big Pine Hwy. I'm not saying this fuel reduction project will store the trees there, I'm only suggesting other trees have been made available for public personal consumption in the past, usually in the fall.
A cut permit is required for that pile of wood is required. $25.00 - 35.00 per cord is cheap.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/passes/permits-woodcutting.shtml
The website fails to list Big Pines Information Center as a source for cut permits. (760) 249-3504
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A cut permit is required for that pile of wood is required. $25.00 - 35.00 per cord is cheap.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/passes/permits-woodcutting.shtml
The website fails to list Big Pines Information Center as a source for cut permits. (760) 249-3504
And don't forget you need to call to see if/when/how you can use a chain saw depending on the weather conditions.
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I have heard a number of times about sparks from equipment used in reducing fire danger causing fires. This summer a fire started over night in an area being made safe for fires, fortunately it only burned an acre. Is this really a good time for logging?
Does anyone know the provisions for saving some dead standing trees for wildlife?
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I see the Coast Horned Lizard occasionally in the hills above the Country Club. Saw one this morning at the base of the Heath Creek Slide as well.
I've never understood how folks consider "wildlife use trees such as acorn woodpecker acorn storage tress and trees with nest holes" as public safety issues. Has there ever been a documented case in the entire world of a dead tree actually falling on a passerby?
Does anyone have the list of sensitive and watchlist plants for this area? Thank you!
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storm there was an incident of a tree that fell on a vehicle and killed people near Table Mountain a few years back. Don't know if it was a full tree or branch that fell but I'm sure others will remember the details.
I'll see if I have the sensitive and watch list for plants as I believe it's listed in the fuel reduction prescriptions.
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storm
Look at the following Appendix A and start on page 29:
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/gtr-172/gtr-172-reference.pdf
Here's the full 400 page document that will give you plenty of tent reading material ;D
Southern California Mountains and Foothills Assessment: Habitat and Species Conservation Issues
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/gtr-172/
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I have attended the funeral of a local man killed on his first fire season with CDF by a falling tree limb in a wind storm miles from the fire line. Like those on the Table Mountain road, he was in a van. Another trail worker killed on the Sequoia by a widowmaker in a wind storm. It does happen.
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Thanks John!
I guess I didn't see the forest for the trees branches for the trunk...forgot about widowmakers.
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The latest edition of the SOPA report indicates the Wrightwood fuel reduction project will not implement until May of '08.
Hopefully this is not the case and it is a "projected" implementaion date. :o
http://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110501-2007-07.html
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Different project than this topic is about. That's the USFS project. The project addressed on this topic is a San Bernardino County Fire/NRCS project on private land that ajoins the USFS project.
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Learn about increased helicopter activity in Wrightwood:
See:
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,9657.0.html
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Hi all, Upon hiking Acorn trail last night I observed 10 to 15 trees intentionally pushed or cut down to block Acorn trail. My wife observed two trucks in the area and heard definite chain saw activity on Monday (11/19/07) and I am hope anyone who has further information will contact police. There was a white truck and a red (possibly Toyota ) truck involved.
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TeleNut the contractor has started on the Maria Stella/Wrightwood Fuel modification project and that includes the area you are talking about.
Those tress being cut down will be flown out by helicopter.
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Thanks for all the info. It could possibly be the fuel reduction on private land. There were no downed trees after crossing into national forrest land. I hope the tree removal is completed soon, Acorn trail is a mess!
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Any chance any of the wood be acquired for the use as fire wood? I can allways use some.
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What is helicopter logging? How long does it go on and why is it done?
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pintrees read the first few postings in this topic and you should get an idea on what's going on.
I'm not sure if firewood will be available from this project or not. I'll ask
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What an awesome sight! I can watch the helicopter out my window, and from the street I can see the men on the ground. I wish I had a good camera. The red helicopter against the blue sky is unbelievable!
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(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/12.4.07.d.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/12.4.07.b.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/12.4.07.c.jpg)
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Lens envy....
Nice shots John!
Thanks you for sharing them.
Here is a poor man's attempt, taken before dusk 28-135 IS. :)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/2087299469_db8961d338_b.jpg)
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Great pictures! So what is the area called they worked on today? I don't even know the name of the mountain/canyon right above me on East Canyon.
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My wife saw the helicopter with a bushy tree hanging from the rope.....and thought the police were taking out a marijuana farm. ;D :alert: :cop:
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I'm actually impressed how quiet the helo is. (yeah, I know.. its noisier than "nothing", but a lot quieter than many helicopters)
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(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/12.4.07.b.jpg)
Where are you taking me!? I am not dead yet! I feel Haaappppy......
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(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/12.4.07.e.jpg)
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thank you for the information - it seems to me it would be less expensive and less dangerous for hikers etc. to reduce fuel by taking downed trees out by flatbed but maybe the area cannot be accessed by a truck? But, I suppose if this is a private removal, the owner's expense is not of concern?
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Pinetrees,
If you read the beginning of this thread (Go to page 1.), you will find a lot of information.
Helicopters are used to fly downed timber to areas accessible by trucks. The trucks then remove the timber and debris.
Here's a link to the site of a company that does this type of work.
http://www.superiorhelicopter.com/heli_logging.php
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One of the main reasons helicopters are used is because of the steep slopes involved. If a land based piece of equipment were used it would tear up the hillside and the erosion potential would be huge.
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(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/MD_HeliLog12.5.b.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/MD_HeliLog12.5.c.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/MD_HeliLog12.5.a.jpg)
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Here's a 10 minute video (15 meg .wmv)
It's best to download to your computer, then run.
http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.5.07.wmv
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What sort of emergency plan has been put in place should this helo go down and spark a fire?
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It's pretty much the same plan for any fire...sparked by a 2 stroke motorcycle, a campfire, downed power line, chainsaws hitting a rock, kids playing with matches or illegally dumped fireplace ashes.
Someone will see the fire and smoke and call 911. The fire department will respond in a timely manner along with other county stations, the USFS and CalFire and the fire will go out eventually.
If it's any consolation, the KMAX helicopter being used has an extraordinary safety record as does the company. They have been flying six days a week in Big Bear (removing bug trees) for the past two years without incident. I can assure you that the pilot and ground crew have a vested interest in insuring that the above plan is never implemented because of them.
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Thanks again John for the video and new shots.
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Day three 12-6-07
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.6.a.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.6.b.jpg)
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Helicopter operations were shut down today due to winds and will resume when weather permits.
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If all goes right, Tuesday Dec 11 should be the last day of helicopter logging for this project.
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(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.11.b.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.11.a.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.11.c.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.11.d.jpg)
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/HazardTrees/HeliLog12.11.e.jpg)
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Those are more than good photos..well done!
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The helicopter portion of this project has been completed.
Approximately 3,000 dead, dying & diseased trees have been removed from the 771 acre project.
The contractor Arrowhead Enterprises continues to process the material and hopes to complete this week. They are located in Blue Jay, CA.
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The experience of Deer Lodge Park in Lake Arrowhead during the Grass Valley Fire shows that these fuel reductions make a significant difference in whether a community survives wild fire or not. The Wrightwood Fire Safe Council and all the agencies involved should be very proud of this accomplishment and all those fuel treatments that are being planned.
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Not to be selfish, but...
Where are the woodchips I see being shredded and are they going to be left for public use? Or was the shredding done directly to a truckbed and carted out?
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The wood chips are the contractors responsibility.
I've sent you a PM.
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The wood chips are the contractors responsibility.
I've sent you a PM.
Thank you.
:)
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The helicopter portion of this project has been completed.
Approximately 3,000 dead, dying & diseased trees have been removed from the 771 acre project.
The contractor Arrowhead Enterprises continues to process the material and hopes to complete this week. They are located in Blue Jay, CA.
So will they be removing more trees using means other then by helicopter?
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I was going to chime in on the chips, but had a thought. I dunno what you want to use them for Walnuts but I wanted to throw them around the yard here and there for weed inhibition. So, I wonder if chips partially from diseased, dying, or dead (from who knows what) trees is such a good idea after all.
I can't believe they did 3000 trees in such a short, to me anyway, time. Great job by one and all.
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I was going to chime in on the chips, but had a thought. I dunno what you want to use them for Walnuts but I wanted to throw them around the yard here and there for weed inhibition. So, I wonder if chips partially from diseased, dying, or dead (from who knows what) trees is such a good idea after all.
I can't believe they did 3000 trees in such a short, to me anyway, time. Great job by one and all.
Same for me. I was thinking of dust abatement and weed abatement, but with the diseases, would that affect my live pines that they are near? Is it contagious?