WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => In The news => Topic started by: roynlorimoore on Jun 03, 12, 12:24:32 PM
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I would like to have all of you research a little about Agenda 21 adopted back in 1992. I have read several articles in regard to what it is and what it will do. I would like to hear other peoples opinions and ideas. I had to go to several websites to read and try to understand. There is also a lot about the Executive Order 13575 recently signed by Obama. I didn't realize that so many Executive Orders are signed (by both Republican and Democratic Presidents) This is not intended to be a Democrat or Republican bashing conversation. What I would like to see are other peoples opinions.
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So why don't you tell us what the heck "Agenda 21" is for starters?
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Nevermind... A short google search and I figured it out. These grand plans are often adopted to try to put us all on a 'better path" .. and then
it becomes dotting the 'i's" and crossing the 't's' time and numerous other treaties, etc.
So, do you have a concern here? If so,, spell it out.
And, yes... Presidents do adopt Executive Orders.. hence the term came about. best, cheryl o7o
p.s. Sheesh, I didn't realize the John Birch Society was still around.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM)
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Interesting points TimG... but I'm off to watch 60 minutes because its second segment is about U.S Nazis .. then I need to wash the dishes.
later, cheryl o7o
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I honestly wanted to know if anybody could tell me a little bit about what their thoughts were on plan of action, as I see it called - Agenda 21. Until the response by tcaarabians, I didn't even know what the John Birch Society was so I certainly can say I wasn't posting on their behalf. I knew that presidents sign Executive Orders, I am not a stupid person. I was speaking of that actual order itself (ya know, what it the order itself is - not "hence the term") It's these kinds of responses that make me hesitate to post on this site. Seems alot of members here like to treat eachother poorly and make smart a$$ remarks. Thanks neighbor
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Ok,, fair enough. You felt insulted somehow. I'm sorry if I insulted you. I did take the time to google 'Agenda 21.' I responded that I thought it was one of those 'agendas' that come out of meetings that try to
establish a new protocol for planning. I asked you if you had a concern .. you haven't responded to that question.
I was surprised when I read the accounts on google that the John Birch Society was still around. Oh,
it was named after the first soldier killed in Korea .. if I remember that right. And, I guess, they've expressed'concerns about Agenda 21. There was no accusation towards you about being a Bircher. And,
no insult towards the Birch Society as they may now be constituted. Heck if I know. They were totally
anti-communist during the Korean campaign and later.
So, kiddo.. if you want to launch a discussion about this... tell us what your initial thoughts are about it.
And, I really don't agree with you about members here treating each other poorly and I'm sorry you
feel that way.
Oh, if you do decide to share your concerns.. aside from giving us a research project... could you explain
why you think its a problem? Or, conversely, why you think its the best thing since sliced bread?
I remain your neighbor in respect. cheryl o7o
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I do dislike responding to myself. But, since I've now had the time to watch the you tube Mojave posted and
read a bit more... I thought I would. Thanks for that video Mojave. Aside from the Santa Cruz elected official, I wasn't sure of the identity or affiliation of any of the other speakers..
I hadn't read anything about "Agenda 21" before roynlorimoore's post. So, thanks for bringing it to our
attention. Its time for you to chime back in here. I was aware of those U.N. actions.. but not in detail.
First I want to say that I don't think its a conspiracy for a one-world order. But, I'm open to argument on
that front.
Second, we do need to address all the issues of 'sustainable development' in our world. Its how we
go about it that remains the question. And, I guess those are the issues that are being raised by
those in opposition to 'Agenda 21' (you'd think they could have come up with a better name,, it just
sounds so 'Nazeeish.') I, for one, will not be reading 'Agendas 1-20".. tho I'm sure the various drafts
would make a great dissertation for someone.
Where does this leave us for now? Hmmm. Interesting question Cheryl (sometimes I talk to myself),
Well, nowhere is my take. The nations represented at the U.N. approved a resolution to try to
move toward internal policies within their countries that/could/might/maybe address the issues of our day. Baby steps.
Do we need to go to "Red Alert" status because private property is going to be taken away? I don't
think so. Do we need to recognize we should work with other nations to begin to adopt policies that
diminish pollution and the reliance on fossil fuels, address health concerns, address poverty.. and all
the rest? I do think so.
As I said previously, its all in the dotting of the 'i's" and crossing the 't's" and its really just
baby steps forward. Tho, I am beginning to think that the new septic tank rules in CA are
a part of this plot. Perhaps I'm being a "smart a$$" again. cheryl o7o
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Ah ha! I am certaianly going to read up on this! Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
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The more I dig into this, the scarier it gets. There is a link explaining Agenda21 near the end of the article.
http://occupycorporatism.com/obamas-latest-executive-order-implements-agenda-21-policies/ (http://occupycorporatism.com/obamas-latest-executive-order-implements-agenda-21-policies/)
So... if I am interpreting the "plan" correctly... Inflate the dollar, forcing more and more folks onto government entitlement rolls. Then control their healthcare. Once people can no longer afford their rent, the government offers to relocate you to FEMA camps... and bingo, the population is controlled a la Agenda 21.
They cant get away with this can they? Or is our current generation X to ignorant to see this coming? After all, Gen X and later are "educated" by the "government" now a days. Looks like we will have to change the Pledge of Allegiance to start as "We the Sheeple....".
What happened to our free market society, our Constitution, Capitalism? Is it too late to turn this around?
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Best video I have found to date about how UN's Agenda 21 is impacting local communities.
It may even explain what is going on behind the scenes wrt San Bernardino County's attempt to take over "blighted mortgages" by eminent domain. The speaker is an eminent domain expert for the state of california among other "things". A bit long but very entertaining and scary informative. She introduces a new term I have never heard before .... communitarianism: for the good of the community, individual property rights must be abolished.
Buckle your seat belts...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/CEHWsdimVO4 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/CEHWsdimVO4)
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I am not very educated, or very aware of my surroundings, and have a strong distrust in our government. I am not a sheep and I can tell when someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes! How many people have to give an inch before the government has their mile? My hope is that this generates some more educated responses. The first two reasonable, informative responses get a free chimney sweep!
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Oops! That didn't come out right! I AM aware of my surroundings! My secretary /wife got it wrong!
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Yesterday, out of 30 people I encountered, none have heard of Agenda 21. 17,000 people in Kings County, Washington lost 65%of the use of their land, which makes me curious if they heard of this before it happened. 1,500 people in Dade County, Florida have already completely lost their property due to Sustainable Development (Agenda 21). Could Wrightwood be next? I am not a computer person and therefore do not know how to put a link for you, but if you go to You Tube and look under Agenda 21 EXPLAINED - full version, this one really explains it so anyone can understand. ( A little lengthy, but worth the education). It starts off about an elderly lady who got arrested because her lawn was dying, and another lady that is facing 90 days in jail for growing a vegetable garden in her front yard. Please take time to learn about this! Thanks!
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There's an interesting piece on Agenda 21 in the LA Times this morning.
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pretty interesting information on Agenda 21
(taken from the website (democrats against agenda 21) http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/index.html
SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.
UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is the action plan implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all energy, all education, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL.
Have you wondered where these terms 'sustainability' and 'smart growth' and 'high density urban mixed use development' came from? Doesn't it seem like about 10 years ago you'd never heard of them and now everything seems to include these concepts? Is that just a coincidence? That every town and county and state and nation in the world would be changing their land use/planning codes and government policies to align themselves with...what?
First, before I get going, I want to say that yes, I know it's a small world and it takes a village and we're all one planet etc. I also know that we have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, and that as cumbersome as that can be sometimes (Donald Rumsfeld said that the Chinese have it easy; they don't have to ask their people if they agree. And Bush Junior said that it would be great to have a dictator as long as he was the dictator), we have a three branch government and the Bill of Rights, Constitution, and self-determination. This is one of the reasons why people want to come to the US, right? We don't have Tiananmen Square here, generally speaking (yes, I remember Kent State--not the same, and yes, an outrage.) So I'm not against making certain issues a priority, such as mindful energy use, alternative energy sponsorship, recycling/reuse, and sensitivity to all living creatures.
But then you have UN Agenda 21. What is it? See our videos and radio shows at the bottom of this page, on our video page (or search YouTube for Rosa Koire) or
buy BEHIND THE GREEN MASK: U.N. Agenda 21 by Rosa Koire click here
CLICK TO PRINT OUT FLYER: WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT UN AGENDA 21?
Considering its policies are woven into all the General Plans of the cities and counties, it's important for people to know where these policies are coming from. While many people support the United Nations for its 'peacemaking' efforts, hardly anyone knows that they have very specific land use policies that they would like to see implemented in every city, county, state and nation. The specific plan is called United Nations Agenda 21 Sustainable Development, which has its basis in Communitarianism. By now, most Americans have heard of sustainable development but are largely unaware of Agenda 21.
In a nutshell, the plan calls for governments to take control of all land use and not leave any of the decision making in the hands of private property owners. It is assumed that people are not good stewards of their land and the government will do a better job if they are in control. Individual rights in general are to give way to the needs of communities as determined by the governing body. Moreover, people should be rounded up off the land and packed into human settlements, or islands of human habitation, close to employment centers and transportation. Another program, called the Wildlands Project spells out how most of the land is to be set aside for non-humans.
U.N. Agenda 21 cites the affluence of Americans as being a major problem which needs to be corrected. It calls for lowering the standard of living for Americans so that the people in poorer countries will have more, a redistribution of wealth. Although people around the world aspire to achieve the levels of prosperity we have in our country, and will risk their lives to get here, Americans are cast in a very negative light and need to be taken down to a condition closer to average in the world. Only then, they say, will there be social justice which is a cornerstone of the U.N. Agenda 21 plan.
Agenda 21 policies date back to the 70's but it got its real start in 1992 at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro when President Bush signed onto it. Click here to see a list of the countries that signed UN Agenda 21. President Clinton took office the following year and created the President's Council on Sustainable Development to implement it in the United States. Made up of federal agencies, corporations, and non-profit groups, the President's Council on Sustainable Development moved quickly to ensure that all federal agencies would change their policies to comply with UN Agenda 21. A non-governmental organization called the International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives, ICLEI, is tasked with carrying out the goals of Agenda 21 worldwide. Remember: UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is a global plan that is implemented locally. Over 600 cities in the U.S. are members; our town joined in 2007. The costs are paid by taxpayers.
It's time that people educate themselves and read the document and related commentary. After that, get a copy of your city or county's General Plan and read it. You will find all sorts of policies that are nearly identical to those in U.N. Agenda 21. Unfortunately, their policies have advanced largely unnoticed and we are now in the end game. People need to identify their elected officials who are promoting the U.N.'s policies and hold them accountable for their actions. Only when we've identified who the people are and what they are trying to do will we be able to evaluate whether or not we approve of the policies they are putting forward. Some people may think it's appropriate for agencies outside the United States to set our policies and some people will not. The question is, aren't Americans able to develop their own policies? Should we rely on an organization that consists of member nations that have different forms of governments, most of which do not value individual rights as much as we do? It's time to bring U.N. Agenda 21 out in the open where we can have these debates and then set our own policies in accordance with our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
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Ok, you say, interesting, but I don't see how that really affects me. Here are a few ways:
No matter where you live, I'll bet that there have been hundreds of condos built in the center of your town recently. Over the last ten years there has been a 'planning revolution' across the US. Your commercial, industrial, and multi-residential land was rezoned to 'mixed use.' Nearly everything that got approvals for development was designed the same way: ground floor retail with two stories of residential above. Mixed use. Very hard to finance for construction, and very hard to manage since it has to have a high density of people in order to justify the retail. A lot of it is empty and most of the ground floor retail is empty too. High bankruptcy rate.
So what? Most of your towns provided funding and/or infrastructure development for these private projects. They used Redevelopment Agency funds. Your money. Specifically, your property taxes. Notice how there's very little money in your General Funds now, and most of that is going to pay Police and Fire? Your street lights are off, your parks are shaggy, your roads are pot-holed, your hospitals are closing. The money that should be used for these things is diverted into the Redevelopment Agency. It's the only agency in government that can float a bond without a vote of the people. And they did that, and now you're paying off those bonds for the next 45 years with your property taxes. Did you know that? And by the way, even if Redevelopment is ended, as in California, they still have to pay off existing debt--for 30 to 45 years.
So, what does this have to do with Agenda 21?
Redevelopment is a tool used to further the Agenda 21 vision of remaking America's cities. With redevelopment, cities have the right to take property by eminent domain---against the will of the property owner, and give it or sell it to a private developer. By declaring an area of town 'blighted' (and in some cities over 90% of the city area has been declared blighted) the property taxes in that area can be diverted away from the General Fund. This constriction of available funds is impoverishing the cities, forcing them to offer less and less services, and reducing your standard of living. They'll be telling you that it's better, however, since they've put in nice street lights and colored paving. The money gets redirected into the Redevelopment Agency and handed out to favored developers building low income housing and mixed use. Smart Growth. Cities have had thousands of condos built in the redevelopment areas and are telling you that you are terrible for wanting your own yard, for wanting privacy, for not wanting to be dictated to by a Condo Homeowner's Association Board, for being anti-social, for not going along to get along, for not moving into a cramped apartment downtown where they can use your property taxes for paying off that huge bond debt. But it's not working, and you don't want to move in there. So they have to make you. Read on.
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This is too far out for me. The number of people that would have to be involved is so massive that it is hard for me to imagine it could be done with the secrecy that would be needed.
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InTheWood.. I agree with you. I do think that some of the reactions to the so-called "Agenda 21" are blowing out of all proportion here as to the efforts to review how local planning and land use policies can impact our lives and the lives of our children and their children.
I'm not sure why 'mixed use' development is such a bugaboo. There are so many metropolitan areas where it makes total sense to me. I guess the fear is that we'll all be rounded up in buses and taken to various camps and then, perhaps, wait in line for our own housing unit and never again to have a backyard. Do we honestly think that single-family homes and neighbor hoods are going to be swept up and discarded?
Now, where I think we should all pay attention is when our county/city/etc. rezones or considers a waiver to the zoning rules or a change that no longer allows us the 'useful enjoyment' we all paid for when we bought our property. Those exemptions can set precedents that developers may want to invest in for a project. Not that developers are bad people, per se (but they do seem to be on an equivalent with bankers these days). IMHO, cheryl o7o
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This is too far out for me. The number of people that would have to be involved is so massive that it is hard for me to imagine it could be done with the secrecy that would be needed.
It is NOT SECRET that is the point!
Anyone that works in the construction trade knows about title 24 energy codes here in CA. They also know about International Building Code. Ask them what is happening?
The codes are getting so far off the hook, that it is almost impossible to get things done.
Try reading about how SF, and NYC is building 500SQF apartments for families. OH! and that is ALL the SQF you will be allowed to have.
Stack and pack housing is what is happening in the cities. ( I know, I lived in LA before WW)
Look at how the UN has taken control of US forestland called "biodiversity zones.
Look and see what has happened with water rights on your own land. Even here in WW we have property that you can not build a single family dwelling on the land. (right here on Snowbird Rd.)
And why can't the owner(s) of that land build a home on it if they want?
Far out?
To many to be involved?
Yeah you could say that.
If your so worried about your children, and your children's children, maybe you should look more into this stuff instead of poo pooing it.
Maybe just maybe you could read the UNs very own white papers on the matter.
But I know that is boring and dancing with the stars might be on, and we all know that TV is much more entertaining thank reading something so important as to your property rights.
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Agenda 21 is just a series of webinars and environmental analysis reports provided to government planners in exchange for a membership fee. You can go straight to the source and read about it. It has no legal authority over anyone; it just provides recommendations and references upon request. It has no bearing on the zoning of Wrightwood, unless the appropriate local agencies decided to enact some of their recommendations.
Snowbird is in the blue zone, which from what I hear is a filled-in and unstable pond. That probably has something to do with the building restrictions there. But I'm just speculating.
I oppose Agenda 21, personally, because I see it as a continuation of the Malthusianism fear-mongering that has been deployed to justify the exploitation of the world's poor for the last 300 years. But that doesn't mean it's an influential document. The fact that the Republican Party has been allowed to denounce Agenda 21 in their official platform is proof enough that the program is inconsequential. You don't see them denouncing the Drug War, or the War on Terror, or the Patriot Act, or the FISA Restoration Act, or the unlawful detention clause of the NDAA 2012. And so on.
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Dusty & Tim: Good points. Some regulations seem misguided and I'm being polite. I know what we went through when we had our barn built here. There were any number of inspections in the building process. There was even a separate inspection for the bolts/rebar in the foundation. Course, I was rather glad they did do that because there was a problem and they required it to be corrected.
I think the point of this discussion is whether Agenda 21 is a driving force for good or evil or somewhere in-between. Clearly, it isn't a secret. What the vocal opposition may mean by that is that people are not paying attention.. so it is sneaking up on us like the flu.
I also continue to think we absolutely must pay attention to our state/county/city zoning & building regs. !!!!!!! (Emphasis added)
And, for the record I do not watch "Dancing with the Stars." (I compare it to basketball.. I'd rather do it than watch it.) Oh, that was a cheap shot. Puhleeze rise above that - I'm listening to you. I watch almost no episodic TV. I generally just watch news and docs. Tho, I am fond of Tues night on CBS.
I did just finish reading an interesting book entitled "Community Versus Commodity." It is a sociological study of the rent control movement in Santa Monica and how that led to the so-called 'progressive' changes there and uses Houston's policies as the comparison. The contrast was based on what two cities were doing to address the various needs of citizens. Course, you only have to follow the news to know how fond some of the citizens of S.M. are about the multi-use projects, large developments and the traffic and parking problems there. In part, I think it addresses some of the issues we are discussing here. Thus, I recommend it. Alas, it does not seem to be available online and it costs $50.00. I'd be happy to loan it out. I'm supposed to forward it on. So, do let me know. cheryl o7o
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A great summary of the scope of Agenda 21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzoN0IQsTAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzoN0IQsTAE)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us8Yv4YLz9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us8Yv4YLz9k)
Some believe that citizens of the USA will not go along voluntarily with such a program. Therefore, one way to implement an such an agenda would be to intentionally crash the US economy and under marshall law, and for our own saftey, relocate folks to the new sustainable housing, "for our own good".
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/articles/illegitimate_government/assessing_monetary_collapse%3A_exposing_agenda_21_and_understanding_freedom_20110609439/ (http://www.freedomadvocates.org/articles/illegitimate_government/assessing_monetary_collapse%3A_exposing_agenda_21_and_understanding_freedom_20110609439/)
Finally, I didnt really totally believe this could be an actual conspiracy. However, in totally different research on our economy, I was investigating into the nature of if the coming crash would be inflationary or deflationary. I was about to go all in on deflationary, until I came upon this article and associated video.
http://goldwars.blogspot.com/2012/06/infation-vs-deflation-james-rickards.html (http://goldwars.blogspot.com/2012/06/infation-vs-deflation-james-rickards.html)
What is basically being said is that the IMF (an institution in the United Nations) will be there to pick up the pieces after the crisis and "reorganization" in the US is over and the dollar will be supported by IMF SDRs.
This one video out of everything I've studied before seems to be the dead canary in the cave that there is something more than just incompetent political leadership intent on destroying our country.... Maybe its time to just enjoy whatever life we have left as free Americans.
I'm just not sure what the next step should be. But there is a Margarita or 2 in my immediate future. :2thumbsup:
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Here's another example of Agenda 21 in progress (in my opinion).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-UGYPY0cQ
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Agenda 21 is an ineffectual UN white paper that advises what local, regional, and national governments might do to guide the growth of communities away from free-for-all dumps like Lancaster and toward some semblance of long-term sustainability. I have no idea how anyone believes this stuff, but it's made Glen Beck a lot of money. And it gets in the way of real truth.
Yes, there's a global banking cartel that's been manipulating markets and currencies and siphoning wealth for hundreds years. Yes, they pull a lot of geopolitical levers to make sure they can keep siphoning as much wealth as they can for as long as possible.
But that doesn't mean there's an Illuminati with a master plan for enslaving the world. It's not the plot of a Glen Beck ghostwritten novel. It's an international spin-off of The Sopranos, with a bunch of powerful families making sure their capos earn. That's it. Fight that, or you're doing them a favor.
What's going on in Nevada is a legal dispute that will be resolved legally. The only reason Cliven Bundy has anything to do with Agenda 21 is because it's feeding into the fringe paranoia of a certain marginalized segment of our society. The Sovereign Citizen Buy Gold Stock Your Bunker with Tangy Tangerine crowd. And I have sympathy for that crowd, because there's some truth to it. But only enough truth to make a really good lie.
Also, for what it's worth, I oppose Agenda 21 myself, because it feeds into the other side's paranoia -- the Malthusian lie that overpopulation is going to kill us all. That's just not true either. Two wings of a paranoid duck, paranoid because we can't believe we really don't have to run from short-faced bears and sabre-tooth tigers anymore.
:soap:
Sorry, just my two cents.
ETA: Haha, I should have scrolled up, I don't at all remember saying the same thing on this thread last year. Too much fluoride in my brain!
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now can we have an intelligent response...???
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Well said TimG!
raven -- I don't understand, were you responding to TimG? I thought his post was excellent.
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(In my Opinion) That was quite a huge pile for only 2 cents! ;)
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Well we can argue about it more in the FEMA camps.
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Tim, You're cracking me up. I hope you and I are in the same FEMA camp.
I do understand the concerns expressed by those that think "Agenda 21" is the sky falling with the storm troopers about to knock on our doors. And, I understand the U.N. initiative to try to express what all countries should be thinking about in terms of sustainability and future planning. Agenda 21 did not come easy and was watered down a good bit.
As communities, however we embrace or reject these concepts will be up to us and our expressing ourselves to our elected officials. Personally, I think that future planning is a good thing. I also believe that taking advantage of science and planning concepts is a good thing. And, that is my two cents. cheryl o7o
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http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/biggest-land-grab-in-the-history-of-the-world/#mFoYfmhdBIiIYppu.01
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To summarize: "Some lawmakers and farmers express concern about an incomplete piece of proposed legislation."
Which becomes the headline: "Biggest Land Grab in the History of the World"
Which is one of the many many many many many reasons WorldNetDaily is not a credible news source. I could enumerate a few of the others, but I'll keep this pile small.
I have to admit, though, that headline probably generated a decent amount of ad revenue. I counted 26 ads on that page.
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WND is infamous for insane headlines over relatively benign news articles. TimG, you're right, it's all about the ad impressions. BTW they are not alone in spicing up their headlines -- every online pub does -- it's just that they bring it to a whole new level.
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And here I was all excited yesterday when my BLM t-shirt came in the mail.
(http://image14.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/products/1000193174/views/2,width=235,height=235,appearanceId=2/Bureau-of-Land-Grabbing-Maggots-T-Shirts.png)
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Just dang.. I can't enlarge it to read what the t-shirt says. cheryl o7o
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Just dang.. I can't enlarge it to read what the t-shirt says. cheryl o7o
US Department of the Interior
Bureau of Land Grabbing Maggots
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I paid $25 for that shirt. I sold it at the bar last night to a cowboy for $60. :)
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Did you get a hat out of the deal too? I've been following the story of that rancher in Utah/NV.. wherever ..that has been fighting with the BLM. So far, he seems to be winning. .. at least on the p.r. front. Plus, he got his cattle back. cheryl o7o
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Please just go back to your shopping carts and bad construction around town. I will quietly go back to sweep. I don't want any one to make ashes of themselves. ::)
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He didn't get all of his cattle back Chery. Check this out -- warning, graphic photo.
http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_animal_atrocities_mass_graves_Bundy_Ranch.html
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/www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-YYn31QEXY
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Snopes is getting into the act on Bundy "conspiracy" theories. http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp)
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The Harry Reid/solar angle is something I could see, that sounds plausible -- but though I'm not big fan of Snopes, they seemed to have done a good job of debunking it. They Breitbart article they link to is a very good read (I assume you guys like Breitbart): http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/12/The-Saga-of-Bundy-Ranch
Anyway, Raven, I like you and I'd never say you or anyone should be quiet about anything -- I just happen to disagree on this one. And chem trials. Wealth-extraction, currency manipulation, war as a racket, the 4th amendment, etc., I'm with you.
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I think debate is a healthy way to discuss issues of importance to us. Clearly, zoning and land use are important issues ala the recommendations in Agenda 21. I really don't want to see P.H. rezoned to allow more structures per lot. I like the rural atmosphere here. And, I would truly dislike it if someone could build a six-story hotel near my property. I also think it is perfectly ok to question what the results of Agenda 21 could be and to raise those questions for discussion. Thankfully, the U.N. didn't include shopping carts in the white paper.
Legislation is introduced to solve a problem. Unfortunately, it often creates ten more problems.
Raven - The link you posted back a bit here on the proposed regulations to expand the Clean Water Act and authorities of various agencies was an interesting read. The hyperbole got in the way a bit. Most telling to me is that the rule is posted for public comment and the scientific study upon which the rule will be based is not completed. Say what? That's 'cart before the horse' to me.
One of my mottos is to 'question authority.' So, lettuce return to the debate. cheryl o7o
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US Department of the Interior
Bureau of Land Grabbing Maggots
Hmmm. Interesting. The BLM used to be the "General Land Office" who's job it was to sell off or grant federal land to people who followed the laws of the time (there was a lot of blatant fraud but that is a story for a different time). Under the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act, it gave the new "BLM" and other federal agencies (except in Alaska and a few other areas) the legal authority to regulate grazing on "reserve" lands. The BLM still sells off isolated parcels of BLM managed land. So how exactly is this a land grab?
And I own the land that Mr. Bundy is grazing on and getting a profit from as much as he does--but he is doing it for free. So where do I send him his bill for my share? ;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67yR-Gj5u70
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihzMeD3ipKI
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And I own the land that Mr. Bundy is grazing on and getting a profit from as much as he does--but he is doing it for free. So where do I send him his bill for my share? ;D
Where's the !#$%# "Like" button???
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I think Bundy's argument is that his family owned the land before the BLM was created... or grazed there before the BLM was created. At least, I think that is his argument. Therefore, in his opinion, he doesn't owe them squat for grazing his cattle there. The BLM clearly disagrees with his analysis. Thus, they seized his cattle and then the BLM backed down after a gun toting showdown (this could also be attributed to a new head of the BLM). I guess some of the cattle may have died according to another story posted here. This story will make a great movie of the week some day.
Back at the ranch here (sorry I had to go there).. the Bundy story kind of embraces the issues that the folks opposed to Agenda 21 are raising. It is the 'don't mess with my property/land/way of life/ the American way/you bloody bureaucratic dimwit/expletives deleted sort of philosophy. I like those people myself. I don't usually agree with them.. but I like them anyway. I think they're more like the men and women that founded this country than a lot of city planners are these days.
We likely need a lot less bureaucracy in our lives. I know I do. That reminds me I need to send in for my dog's new license. And, at the same time.. I think we would be fools not to pay attention to what we can do to protect our environment and communities. It is how to do it that is the rub here. IMHO. cheryl o7o
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The BLM clearly disagrees with his analysis.
As do two separate court decisions.
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So how exactly is this a land grab?
I don't think it is. If we allow him to graze on public land for free it's welfare ranching, and I want in on it. Times change and as population increases we can't always keep doing what we've always done.
If he ever did keep a low profile, he doesn't have that going for him anymore
In the videos I've seen I don't think Bundy represents himself well at all
His grazing days are numbered
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I'd would post a Youtube video but it's embarrassing to listen to the Bundy character. Last interview I saw on Fox, he was claiming the US Government was a foreign entity while all the "militia" paraded behind the interview with American flags on horseback. This was another point of view on the subject that shows another side of the story....without any reference to Agenda 21 or any other conspiracy.
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/17/fox_news_demented_poster_boy_why_angry_rancher_cliven_bundy_is_no_patriot/ (http://www.salon.com/2014/04/17/fox_news_demented_poster_boy_why_angry_rancher_cliven_bundy_is_no_patriot/)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5xu35bAxA
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Laughing at that one. cheryl o7o
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Still laughing here as well. Nice break in the action here.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=joQzpWC-gCo
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https://www.facebook.com/MesaCountyPatriots/posts/131433710358920
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Ok, I guess we're branching out here from "Agenda 21" and talking about government intrusion and so-called stupidity.. basically what can often go wrong with government bureaucrats that don't know how to listen to their constituents. So, while not specific to Agenda 21.. the issues are the same. IMHO. There is always going to be another side to any government action.
Raven.. The Pitkin videos were great. I was struck by how calm the discussion was between the citizens and the Forest reps. Calm, but forceful nonetheless.. those folks were not backing down. I never did understand why the Forest Service personnel decided to close the road. But, that road is open now. And, I did enjoy when they were saying 'hey.. we're opening that road.. so where are you going to take us to jail?"
Jim.. I thought the video of Clive Bundy wherein he called the U.S. an alien nation.. or somesuch .. likely didn't expand enough on why he said that. The man may not be articulate. .. he's just trying to save his way of life. And, it may be past time for him to adjust to how things are now versus 100 years ago. I think he may have won a battle but he's going to lose the war on not paying for grazing rights.
This brings us to civil disobedience ala Bundy and Pitkin and many, many more .. those times we just stand up collectively and say 'no'. Our country has a wonderful tradition of doing that. And, sometimes those that do go to jail, are beaten or killed and their homes burnt to the ground. That is always inspiring in documentaries.. but rather tough to do at the time.
I don't feel that the proposals in Agenda 21 rise to that level. I respect that for some they do. I believe we should face the fact that our planning and zoning laws in CA and its respective counties likely already rise to and exceed the recommendations in Agenda 21. We could focus on whether there are new proposals here in CA & SBD that have been formulated on those recommendations. But, why focus now?
All this said.. and I'm sorry to have rattled on.. I must now go figure out if it is still legal for me to spit downwind. cheryl o7o
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I found this an interesting read.
G. Hardin - "Living on a Lifeboat" (in James E. White text)
Hardin's thesis: People in rich nations should do nothing for the people of poor nations, and we should close our borders to them.
Although people talk about our common bonds here on "spaceship earth," that metaphor is misleading. We don't have one ruler, a captain, who makes sure everyone behaves. A better metaphor is a lifeboat. The rich people of the world are in one of the lifeboats, and the poor are in the water, drowning. Most people are drowning. Americans aren't.
How should we respond to the drowning people if our boat is almost full?
We could be charitable to all. And we'll all drown! (The Christian view is identical to Marxism here.)
We could be charitable to some people. But this will never be fair in the selection process.
We could do nothing for them, and survive while they die.
Let's now complicate it:
Reproduction is faster among the poor nations. Soon, there will 7 people in poverty for every "rich" one. Assuming we should share everything, why should each of us support 7 others?
Ruin of the commons: If we give them access instead of a share, we must assume some of those people will be more selfish than we are. The result of equal access is always harmful when it comes to shared resources. (Note that enforcing rules to protect what is common amounts to NOT making it commo
Some people want a limited sharing through a World Food Bank. But it's not a bank, since the rich deposit and the poor take. It's a TRANSFER system. Result: WE will pay, and enrich agri-business and shipping companies, to benefit people when it's not a real emergency. Low-frequency certainties aren't genuine emergencies.
Ratchet Effect
In nature, over-population is self-correcting (e.g., famine and disease).But there is a lot of suffering in the process. Our efforts to stop the suffering are what break the natural cycle.
Our interventions replace the natural cycle with a pejoristic ratchet system. Each step is worse than the last, by escalating the number of mismanaged poor.
Eco-Destruction
You can't increase food without reducing other resources of many types (e.g., we increase pollution). In the long run, future generations must accept greatly decreased quality of life in order to reduce suffering now. This is backwards!.
Immigration
What are the real reasons that rich countries permit immigration? To get cheap labor. But generous immigration means that, over time, we prefer to benefit the children of immigrants, because they will take over the commons (example: compare the lives of Native Americans with those of the people who immigrated into North Dakota.)
Door-Shutting
The additional problem with immigration is where to draw a line. If we think it's wrong to stop or slow immigration for OUR benefits, then we must think "our" riches aren't really ours. But then they should not go to immigrants. They should go back to Native Americans. But of course that's not right, either, since that just puts most Americans into poverty, and almost no one benefits. (Hardin assumes that questions of benefit are more important here than questions of justice.)
http://web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil%20115/Hardin-on-lifeboat.htm (http://web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil%20115/Hardin-on-lifeboat.htm)
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That's clinical, selectively assumptive, psychopathic bull.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52wIhk-8xZI
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See: An Essay on the Principle of Population by Thomas Malthus
http://www.esp.org/books/malthus/population/malthus.pdf
This BS fear-mongering has been used to justify inhumanely callous imperialist policies for two centuries, and is just as wrong now as it was then. I don't feel like looking up numbers right now, but I think we produce something like 10 times as much food per acre of land, with 1/50th the labor or something like that. Thomas Malthus didn't predict that, just like the doomsayers now can't predict what technology we'll have in 50 years. Hydroponic gardening, energy efficiency, and the fact that the population is going to peak around 2050 are going to make this article look as plainly silly as it is eventually.
All of this is recycled.
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http://aun-tv.com/9-western-states-talk-takeover-of-federal-lands-how-bundy-made-it-front-and-center/
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http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/04/blm-seizes-texas-ranchers-land-without-any-compensation-video/
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http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/04/21/The-Eyes-of-the-BLM-are-on-Texas
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Summation to date IMHO:
The people of Pipkin/Pitkin? and rancher Yowell make better 'poster boys' for government 'intrusion' than does Bundy.
Those were some rather expensive pieces of jewelry for Sen. Reid's staff - if that story is accurate. No wonder his granddaughter's business is 'defunct.' And, what did he give to the men on his staff? Maybe tie clips.
Just about nobody likes the BLM.
Just about everyone has an opinion on immigrants and poor people.
Agenda 21 - Just about nobody knows what it says.. they either don't like it or don't give a flying.
Anybody actually looking at zoning proposals for CA and SBD that could be an example of Agenda 21 proposals? Did you see the map in the LA Times today that shows air pollution for So Cal? We're cleaner than most .. but not as good as I would have thought.
I can't remember the last time I yelled out "focus, focus" in a crowded theater. cheryl o7o
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Just about everyone has an opinion on immigrants and poor people.
"Living on a Lifeboat" A friend sent me that link after I had told him eco-destruction would increase as populations increased.
That's clinical, selectively assumptive, psychopathic bull.
^^ and I can appreciate Joe Schmoe comment
I wonder if there's any truth to this...
http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/russian-su-24-scores-off-against-the-american-uss-donald-cook/ (http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/russian-su-24-scores-off-against-the-american-uss-donald-cook/)
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http://www.lossofprivacy.com/index.php/2011/07/hr-bill-1505-allows-for-dhs-takeover-of-seashores-and-coastal-areas/
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http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/the_purposeful_flooding_of_americas_heartland.ht
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http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/the_purposeful_flooding_of_americas_heartland.html
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Here's a challenge, Raven. Post some things that are good and working well. Somewhere in this vast land there must be some governmental agency that has done something positive or done something right at least once. Doing the right thing or doing something right does not always make good headlines or youtube videos.
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I have one. ;D
As much as I despise going to the DMV when you actually get to taking care of business they are very friendly and helpful.
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Good challenge Jim.. come on Raven.. I know you can do it. There is more right than wrong. We just hear about the wrong more often. And, I always want to know the source of various reports. Ya know, sometimes they just have their own political agenda to support or an axe to grind. Sometimes, they're right.
I would dislike to see this discussion deteriorate into the 'war of the links.' That isn't a discussion to me and usually the link doesn't contribute to proving a point - even if I like the video.
As for my personal vote for what is right: The Fire Dept and its services. The CSD water dept here.. it is small.. the service is great and the price is fair.
As for that link about the Homeland Security taking over all our coastal and waterways.. well, I'd like to learn about that House bill a bit before I make a judgment. It will no doubt die in committee. The article seemed a bit on the extreme side to me. The last time our country had our coasts protected like what the article projected.. was WW2 and whatever it was we did after 9/11 in that regard.
Closer to home here.. 70 percent chance of rain/snow tomorrow night into Sat. morning.. I'll let you guys vote on how the county scrapes the roads. Here at my place.. it is excellent work. cheryl o7o
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE
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Laughing again.. good one Raven. Now, this thread is either going to move to the new 'net neutrality' rules.. or maybe that should be in DSL, etc... or, we can thank the Romans for the aquaduct, education and our roads.. and thank Monty Python for pointing that out to us. Raven.. you haven't really mounted to Jim's challenge here.. but it was a good one nonetheless.
Back to the Romans and earlier days for a moment: I must wonder if we wouldn't be a happier country if we all wore loose robes? Think about it for a minute. Course, it would mean the end to those "WalMart Moments" slide shows.
cheryl o7o
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The Ballad of Cliven Bundy
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/ehanpl/the-ballad-of-cliven-bundy (http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/ehanpl/the-ballad-of-cliven-bundy)
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I am working on it. I wanted to give back a respectful work effort, not just a quick reply. :2thumbsup:
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I don't care if Cliven Bundy is a racist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0zoee4k7yE&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0zoee4k7yE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
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http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/04/30/Johnson-Land-Vail-BLM-Bundy-Land-Grab-Federal-Rights-California
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It doesn't matter what it's worth if you have no plans on selling.
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Kind of related to the Agenda 21 and the Bundy thing, a bit tangential, ...but much more concerning about the "BIG" government "approach to things".
Under the Obama administration (but originally signed by Bush right after 911), "now" if say for instance TimH, an American citizen, is accused of being an "enemy" of the state or maybe even a (possible) "domestic terrorist" , by "somebody(undefined) (and for what ever reason)" .... then screw the Bill of Rights... under OBAMA's 'executive order", he can/will be indefinitely detained forever.... and ever and ever. Who would care? And should we care?
http://rt.com/usa/156172-scotus-ndaa-hedges-obama/ (http://rt.com/usa/156172-scotus-ndaa-hedges-obama/)
IMA, it is outrageous that "this president" can hold any "American Citizen" .... let me repeat "AMERICAN CITIZEN" indefinitely without "DUE PROCESS" as guaranteed by our Constitution "in the proscribed time frame", regardless of the severity of "ANY" crime he may have committed, no matter how heinous. This is one the most important principals of US citizenship that has historically made AMERICA the greatest country in the world wrt to human rights. But now, our current "administration" IMO, has crapped all over it (for whatever reasons ???) .... and we let him... shame on us.... unless for some reason, we as American citizens now think this is OK. ???
It would not surprise me, given the the recently disclosed "honesty" of the current administration i.e wrt the "recent events" surrounding the coverup of Benghazi or the IRS targeting Teaparty scandel.... that at some point "they" (those that would willingly trod on our constitutional rights) might pull some interesting shenanigans ... for example maybe "Harry Reid might declare Bundy a domestic terrorist" and given Obamas signed 'executive directive" that Bundy might simply disappear... forever.... and our "Main Stream Media" would simply "refuse" to "cover" it.
IF Bundy, and his family did suddenly "disappear" physically and then no more coverage about it from the main steam media, would you be concerned? Given the current ... um... (no comment) character of the leadership "running" this country, I vote NO CONFIDENCE.
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And now the media is involved? The same American media that broke Watergate & the Iran Contra affair without benefit of the Internet and unshredded emails?
Script please!!! I'm off to the Fund It website...
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So many outlets.. so little time. cheryl o7o
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Kind of related to the Agenda 21 and the Bundy thing, a bit tangential, ...but much more concerning about the "BIG" government "approach to things".
Under the Obama administration (but originally signed by Bush right after 911), "now" if say for instance TimH, an American citizen, is accused of being an "enemy" of the state or maybe even a (possible) "domestic terrorist" , by "somebody(undefined) (and for what ever reason)" .... then screw the Bill of Rights... under OBAMA's 'executive order", he can/will be indefinitely detained forever.... and ever and ever. Who would care? And should we care?
http://rt.com/usa/156172-scotus-ndaa-hedges-obama/ (http://rt.com/usa/156172-scotus-ndaa-hedges-obama/)
IMA, it is outrageous that "this president" can hold any "American Citizen" .... let me repeat "AMERICAN CITIZEN" indefinitely without "DUE PROCESS" as guaranteed by our Constitution "in the proscribed time frame", regardless of the severity of "ANY" crime he may have committed, no matter how heinous. This is one the most important principals of US citizenship that has historically made AMERICA the greatest country in the world wrt to human rights. But now, our current "administration" IMO, has crapped all over it (for whatever reasons ???) .... and we let him... shame on us.... unless for some reason, we as American citizens now think this is OK. ???
It would not surprise me, given the the recently disclosed "honesty" of the current administration i.e wrt the "recent events" surrounding the coverup of Benghazi or the IRS targeting Teaparty scandel.... that at some point "they" (those that would willingly trod on our constitutional rights) might pull some interesting shenanigans ... for example maybe "Harry Reid might declare Bundy a domestic terrorist" and given Obamas signed 'executive directive" that Bundy might simply disappear... forever.... and our "Main Stream Media" would simply "refuse" to "cover" it.
IF Bundy, and his family did suddenly "disappear" physically and then no more coverage about it from the main steam media, would you be concerned? Given the current ... um... (no comment) character of the leadership "running" this country, I vote NO CONFIDENCE.
Hey Randy. Would it really be different without Obama ?
At least you can get this off your chest here and not bring it up at breakfast.
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This topic just won't die. It's Frankenthread! :-)
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"Frankenthread"... Laugh of the morning.. it has now earned its own topic category: "Agenda 21 or really anything including recipes."
Hey Hobbes: How about a cartoon? This puppy deserves an asterick. cheryl o7o
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http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/new-world-order-plans-for-humanity-revealed-in-1969-audios/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3io33sPJBk4
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Wow.
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Um... the tapes were an interview of Dr. Dunegan in 1988, "remembering" a Dr. Day's speech from 1969. Supposedly he wrote notes on napkins and later transcribed them. I hesitate to give credence to a man's 20-year-old memories of someone else's speech that may or may not have said what Dunegan said he did. I sure wouldn't build a political structure on it.
Henry Makow, Ph.D. (of what, I don't know) is actively pushing the tapes based on his belief in the-- wait for it -- Illuminati. :o
Here is a another winner comment: "For, those who understand such things will recognise that Day's remarks [again, assuming that Day actually made the remarks -- we have absolutely no reasonable proof at all] are merely reiteration of the secret agenda of the Global Elite to wipe out swathes of humanity by promoting ill health and spurious medical treatments while suppressing effective treatments for diseases as well as the deliberate Darwinintroduction of man-made pathogens, like AIDS, into the human gene pool."
Uh...
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Well clearly.. the drug companies are behind this entire plot. As I type, they're likely buying up land in Third World countries. Raven: You are kidding here right? Tell me you're kidding. And, where is your 'something must be right" entry to this thread?
Oh, wait.. what is this thread? I'm sooooo confused now. cheryl o7o
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:f_ufo:
I'm tellin' ya.....
I'm putting my foil hat back on. (AND I am willing to sell a foil hat to anyone needing one for only $29.95.)
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$29.95..how much is that in "ameros"? ;-)
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I decided to see if I could find the full speech Kennedy gave that Raven posted the excerpt of a bit back.
It was before the American Newspaper Publishers Assoc on April 27, 1961. It was a great speech and full of Kennedy's disarming, low-key humor. But, he was not warning of a 'New World Order" by my read of it. He was talking about the Cold War and communism. And, he was asking publishers to consider our national security when they published stories and to exercise restraint. This makes sense to me given the Bay of Pigs and our incursion into Vietnam in that era.
It was a time when there was a communist under every rock. It was a time when film artists, teachers and state dept. employees were fired and blacklisted. Talk about a 'World Order".. it was us.
So, how does that relate to Agenda 21? Well I guess a conspiracy by any other name is a conspiracy. There are those that believe that Agenda 21 and its various proposals for sustainability are a plot to seize private property. I don't agree with that view. Tho, I certainly think there are some lame-brained proposals introduced by various government officials that deserve to be debated and argued about in the court of public opinion.
You can find the full speech at www.infiniteunknown.net .. just google John F. Kennedy/New World Order speech and go to that link.
And as a side-note.. the property adjacent to me has been cited by Cal Fire to be cleared of brush. That is my kind of government intervention and I'ma soa happyo.. cheryl o7o
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Under the Obama administration (but originally signed by Bush right after 911), "now" if say for instance TimH, an American citizen, is accused of being an "enemy" of the state or maybe even a (possible) "domestic terrorist" , by "somebody(undefined) (and for what ever reason)" .... then screw the Bill of Rights... under OBAMA's 'executive order", he can/will be indefinitely detained forever.... and ever and ever. Who would care? And should we care?
Haven't read this thread in a while, but just a quick chime in to say this is my point -- untrue things like "Agenda 21" obscure facts like these, which we should all be angry about. Not only does the NDAA'12 claim the right to detain citizens indefinitely, without even presenting them with the charges or evidence, but the White House has also claimed and used the right to murder US citizens without due process. Google Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen born in Denver and killed by a CIA-led drone strike in Yemen. He had no connection to terrorism and was sitting in a cafe. It's not that I believe the collateral murder of an American teenager is worse than a teenager of some other nationality, but if you read some of the comments by the administration about his "accidental" killing, they are very disturbing.
Anyway, this is the exact kind of thing we should be getting upset about, MojavieSidecar ... NDAA'12 for one. That this comment will be stored forever in the NSA's Utah data center for another. Many more where that came from.
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http://lastresistance.com/4390/agenda-21-california-law-abolish-private-property/
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The text of SB1...
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB1 (http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB1)
Boy, I'd sure hate to own property in the way of this juggernaut. :-\
Oh, wait... if this does pass, eventually we all do. :-X
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As much as I hesitate to chime in on this one again... I do anyway. If you read the state bill that was previously posted here on a link.. it is not some new 'Agenda 21' exercise of power to seize our property. The powers of 'eminent domain' that are granted to our state and local governments have been in place for a long time. This bill replaces some of the powers of a 'redevelopment agency' that Jerry Brown did away with a year plus back. From my read, it replaces the definitions of "blight" .. that were misused by various government entities to seize private property (and they've been doing that for a very long time) .. and replaces some of the language with "sustainability." I hate to repeat myself .. but a 'blight' by any other name. .. Yes, I agree .. it could easily be abused just as the old redevelopment agencies were abused by local governments that seized private property for the so-called 'public good.'
But, it ain't new. So, we should all get that straight. It is not some U.N. sponsored agenda that is part of a "New World Order" and secret society. Eminent domain has been part of our laws for going on forever. I'd like to see it end because I don't want the 138 expanded here in P.H. Call me selfish and a NIMBY.. I don't care.
At the same time.. I think it is a good thing to plan for sustainability.. and pay attention to things like water, energy, land use, etc. It is how we get there that is the debate here. My thoughts.. cheryl o7o
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That's right, Cheryl. Just compensation for federal level eminent domain is ordered in the 5th amendment. You know, the Bill of Rights, passed 1791. The 14th amendment -- 1868 -- extended similar protections to state-level eminent domain.
NOT "Agenda 21" fodder.
There have been some abuses but they are few and far between given 200+ years of the right to eminent domain. The federal and state governments have certainly NOT dispensed with everyone's private property. BTW I read SB1. "Blight, blight, blight." It's not talking about your nice town or suburb, it's talking about slumlords or failed manufacturing plants who refuse to sell their hellhole.
Should we be wary of eminent domain? YES. Should we align a 200+year-old eminent domain policy with silliness like Agenda 21? NO.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAAxKG1XmTk
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I hereby recommend that we rename this thread: Formerly Agenda 21 - now "any and all abuse by government entities." That should keep all of us busy for awhile.
Raven.. this link you posted has nothing to do with Agenda 21 .. tho, I do appreciate that its title is now taking on the branding of all branding.
I begin here by saying that I have never been a fan of LA County Supervisor Mike Antonovich. I am not only not a fan.. I am a critic.
You would think that L.A. County would have better things to do and spend money on than targeting desert dwellers who happen to maintain their property in an untidy way. I wouldn't want to live near them. But, that is me. I suggest that you 'follow the money'.. and see who has bought what land near them. These investors tend to know what might be "hot" for an investment and a developers future plans for the area. And, that is what often forces people to sell their land.
I think all of us up here in the Tri-Community need to pay attention to state, county and local zoning changes. We need to watch them like hawks.
My take, cheryl o7o
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVnfQgt0MZc
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I'm sorry my previous post doesn't seem to have anything to do with Agenda 21 either, but I couldn't help myself. It seems to have only posted half of the speech. :P
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Raven.. The whole speech, all 27 min. of it, played for me. I indulged myself on this Mother's Day and listened to it. It was a speech by Ronald Reagan when he campaigned for Barry Goldwater in the 1964 election. It, like the Kennedy speech you previously posted, was anti-communist. That was par for that era. And, I guess there are a good number of folks that think that Agenda 21 is another communist plot.. though now it has been 're-branded' to Agenda 21.
In my ever-increasing and feeble attempt to take our focus back to Agenda 21... I offer this: "One zoning law does not a communist make." I so had to go there. I continue to think we should pay attention to legislation at the federal, state and local level.. and make ourselves heard if we don't like it. And, vote for our elected officials accordingly.. or however we choose to protest.
May I make a simple request to those of you that have participated in this discussion? My request is if you want to post a link.. tell us why you think that link is pertinent to this discussion. This is my Mother's Day request. cheryl o7o
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
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I am finished !
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http://teapartyinthehills.org/agenda_21_50.html
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Or not. Raven, is it at all possible to just stick in a sentence about what the clip is about?
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It's hard to convey c**p in one succinct sentence. cheryl o7o
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:laugh: :2thumbsup: