I agree fully. The Forum is the best for factual, accurate info which is what I want, and we all need.
Thanks, John, all the moderators, and the people that keep us informed, and thanks to all the firefighters keeping us safe. :)
Diego
@santiagodieg0
1m
Beginning of the fire in Azusa. #DamFire @KTLA
@ABC7
https://twitter.com/i/status/1288957875906256896
ABC7 is calling it 6,000 acresI heard this come over the scanners per Air Attack 52.
Interesting article about our recent set of major wildfires in CA. Another perspective different from much of what you hear or read in the MSM.
Are we looking at a possible situation like we did the Toilet Paper Fire? Is it possible it will hit the west end of Wrightwood area? (Big Pines area)At this time, there is no threat to the Wrightwood or Big Pines area.
There's a new on at the 138 and Old Mill Rd. in the Crestline area.
The wind is supposed to shift to the NE. Wouldn't that change blow it back?Yes. Wind out of the northeast will blow the fire to the southwest.
It's the Bobcat Fire that is threatening Mt. Wilson Observatory and the seismic station, right?
In any case, it sounds like they're both still there. Is this correct?
Wrightwood's Fire History
(http://www.wrightwoodfsc.com/fires/Gobblers/MD_WW.FireHistory.8.2013..JPG)
Large version of map: http://tinyurl.com/lhjuby5 (http://tinyurl.com/lhjuby5)
Roughly 50% of the untouched piece of forest gone. John, do you still happen to have any of those fire history maps you've posted here? I recall one that depicted this area that I'm basing this on.
Wildfire history of California, interactive and user-friendly
A History Of California Wildfires (http://projects.capradio.org/california-fire-history/?fbclid=IwAR0W6lv7WvOR6Wc2P6-BsP1CeCbseK38gUvaYehu12nUfgEE2aLGuZzA7Vo#10.53/34.3422/-117.6518)
Not a single aircraft on the Bobcat fire again. Baffling.A former fire aviator I watch in Northern California says the planes up there are grounded due to smoke/poor visibility in the fire area.
A former fire aviator I watch in Northern California says the planes up there are grounded due to smoke/poor visibility in the fire area.I find this confusing. yesterday it was windy and it blew away the smoke from the north end of the fire. It was clear there. Yet, they only had one aircraft there which I believe was a Chinook helicopter from Lancaster. Two, they said that they couldn't fly because of winds, didn't they? I guess I wasn't aware that the conditions under which they fly were so narrow and specific.
I have no idea if that's true here, but it'd make sense.
Not a single aircraft on the Bobcat fire again. Baffling.
N951LB appears to be there now. . . Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma.That's LACSD: https://flightaware.com/photos/view/1504754-11d587a3bfc5724e7f69ffbd9c16170ac3d305ce/aircrafttype/AS32
Maybe it is a choice ... pine forests naturally burn historically every 25 years or so, if it hasn't burned, and burning isn't a threat, then it should.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIRATT52/history/20200910/1949Z/KSBD/KSBD
One flight of the coordinator plane. That's it. And only one flight of a tanker out of San Bernardino to the other fire in Yucaipa.
Yet super scoopers were on this, lol:
https://signalscv.com/2020/09/brush-fire-shuts-down-southbound-interstate-5/
The other day tankers didn't fly because the inversion made visibility unsafe and under their minimums. Today and going forward it will be based on triaging a resource that is in short supply around the country and putting them where the most is threatened. These aircraft are a national resource and finite. No different then the number of folks and equipment on the ground. It has been a very long summer for all of them.Thanks Jim. The confusing thing is the contrast between what was a days-long air train coming out of San Bernardino to work the Lake fire, and the lack of aircraft activity on this fire. The inversion layer is practically a constant in the LA basin, but I could see the tops of our 10K-foot peaks during times when the aircraft were parked, so I don't understand how working these fires differs. From my layman's point of view it almost seems like there were a trigger point a few days ago where we gave up on fighting the Bobcat fire and fell back to let it burn up to a very large perimeter.
Thanks Jim. The confusing thing is the contrast between what was a days-long air train coming out of San Bernardino to work the Lake fire, and the lack of aircraft activity on this fire. The inversion layer is practically a constant in the LA basin, but I could see the tops of our 10K-foot peaks during times when the aircraft were parked, so I don't understand how working these fires differs. From my layman's point of view it almost seems like there were a trigger point a few days ago where we gave up on fighting the Bobcat fire and fell back to let it burn up to a very large perimeter.
Also, does the San Gabriel Wilderness designation or the National Monument designation change the fire fighting approach at all? Lastly, I think I recall that the super scoopers are hired by LA County, and this was in LA County land, but I don't think I've ever seen them work in the National Forest. Is that true?
Mtn High North being used as landing zone (LZ) for 2 helicoptersI drove up to MH North on my way from Jackson Lake area through WW at around 3:30p+-. Looks like Columbia Helicopter Corp is setting up shop. It was very early on and only one support vehicle was there in the beginning stages of set up.
I drove up to MH North on my way from Jackson Lake area through WW at around 3:30p+-. Looks like Columbia Helicopter Corp is setting up shop. It was very early on and only one support vehicle was there in the beginning stages of set up.
I drove up to MH North on my way from Jackson Lake area through WW at around 3:30p+-. Looks like Columbia Helicopter Corp is setting up shop. It was very early on and only one support vehicle was there in the beginning stages of set up.Grabbed a quick photo of the helicopter LZ at MH North. Taken at around 11:45am today, 9/14/2020
Sorry, but I'm pretty convinced and am going to go ahead and say that the handling of these two fires has been a likely verifiable, colossal F-up.
Care to share what you base this on? .My observations of the weather, the activity and inactivity of aerial firefighting hardware as it related to the weather (which I am observing on the internet and with my eyes), the timing of decisions and the decisions themselves. In turn, I'll pose a question to you (and Jim, to be clear, I do defer to and value your extensive experience), without your old hat on if possible, what is your opinion on how this has and is proceeding? Because this seems out of the realm of normal even given some new climate realities. As if our firefighters are being overpowered.
My observations of the weather, the activity and inactivity of aerial firefighting hardware as it related to the weather (which I am observing on the internet and with my eyes), the timing of decisions and the decisions themselves. In turn, I'll pose a question to you (and Jim, to be clear, I do defer to and value your extensive experience), without your old hat on if possible, what is your opinion on how this has and is proceeding? Because this seems out of the realm of normal even given some new climate realities. As if our firefighters are being overpowered.
I mean, they set up a last line of defense on ACH, a ridge where winds tend to blow north every day and now it's on the north side of ACH with nothing but more unburned forest between there and Juniper Hills. Frankly, if I were residents there I'd be worried.
Oh man, that doesn't look good. I thought I heard they had a bunch of defensible space, but when I saw pics on the news tonight it really didn't look like it at all. Hope they can save it.The same thing happened in the Station fire. It's very steep on the north side of the ridge, so they had to let the fire come right up to them, then stop it. I recall it being described as very risky. There were burned trees on the observatory grounds.
Ok, I guess that is a retardant plane. :P
And the address of the person whose weather station stopped reporting is roughly 29236 106th St E, Littlerock/Juniper Hills. It stopped reporting 28 minutes ago.
Google only says that's near Wrightwood. Is that on Table Mountain?
I just got back from the Grizzly Cafe, where a group of firefighters are waiting to be redeployed. I stopped and asked one of them about the fire and how far it has advanced. He said that he and his group just got back from the top of Largo Vista and that the fire is presently south of Largo Vista in the desert and is not coming up the mountain at this time. I asked him how will we know if that changes and there is a mandatory evacuation, and he said that his understanding is that there will be another robocall to all phones in WW well in advance of an approaching fire, and a sheriff's vehicle will drive up and down our streets announcing a mandatory evacuation on his loudspeaker. I told him that my wife and I plan to spend the night here tonight, see how things are tomorrow and will be ready to leave when the mandatory evacuation comes and he said that's what he would do too. That's the update I wanted to share with you.
Domingo - South of the top of Largo Vista wouldn't be on the desert floor. Do you mean west of Largo Vista in the desert? That's what it looks like on the maps to me. Thx. cherylFor folks who live down the hill, the mountains are always north. It can be slightly disorienting if you're from out of town and are on that side of the range.
For folks who live down the hill, the mountains are always north. It can be slightly disorienting if you're from out of town and are on that side of the range.I STILL have to stop and think 10 years later.
Here's the latest KMZ file for those using Google EarthThat's an awful lot of homes. Dozens. There's a spot in there on Big Pines Rd my wife always wants to buy property that got it too.
https://wrightwoodfsc.com/fires/Bobcat/20200919_Bobcat_IR.kmz
Thank goodness last night I was following a car through most of the detour because it was not clearly marked as it has been when I've used it before.That's because some self-centered residents feel fit to remove the detour signs. Pretty dumb move in normal times. I'm pretty sure I've seen these residents. Law enforcement will probably have to have a conversation with them. In the meantime, for this fire situation, someone needs to go through there and make those signs more permanent to ensure local yokels can't just do away with them on a whim. A cone is not adequate.
A cone is not adequate.I'm gonna go one step further. A resident or someone on one of the many boards in Wrightwood needs to bring this to the attention of the Sherriff's dept. ASAP.
a large congregation of tankers over the area ready to drop retardant. I count 3 S-2 tankers, 5 large air tankers & 3 VLATs over the area. 91,017 acres & 15% contained as of this morning.Two weeks ago, had there been this kind of air response and not parked aircraft, Juniper Hills residents would have homes to go home to, the forest (likely a relic forest) would be intact and taxpayers wouldn't have had to incur the costs of many weeks of firefighter costs (and the toll this takes on them and their families), increased insurance premiums, and residents if Wrightwood would be spending a relaxing weekend living their lives instead of packing their things.
Chris, it's 2020. I can think of a number of ways this information can be captured and related. At the very least the GIS people can give an estimate without even leaving their desks. A good question is, how many residents in threatened areas are aware that, in my estimate, near 100 structures were lost yesterday? Is that not time sensitive information? Information useful to the public and to policy makers?
Joe....give it a rest. When this is all over we can pick this apart. Now is not the time
I remember seeing a map that had the divisions and areas they have divided the fire into. Does anyone have a link to that map so I can follow the scanner talk easier. Thank you.
This same ridge burned on 8/20/2010. I took this video from that same turnout:
https://youtu.be/xt-MG4Jm86Y (https://youtu.be/xt-MG4Jm86Y)
Looks good but we're still under a SB Sheriff's evacuation warning, right?
I applaud the effort to give the live update, but the extremely poor audio ...indecipherable...negated the event. Also, YT option did not allow closed captions to make up for the poor audio, hence. no go. Sad. Two WWoodians asked good questions about our village re: evac in the question/comment space. Doubt they were answered.We can hope that they will update a version with closed captions at a later time. They did that for an earlier briefing (the Zoom meeting that filled to capacity instantly a week or so ago).
Click on the map that Wrightwood posted and read the legend, etc. All the info is there.
Incident: 00614 Type: Report of Fire Location: 422-645 Lytle Creek Rd Loc Desc: ** HIDDEN FIRE ** Lat/Lon: 34.258529 -117.492677
Detail Information
1:53 PM 1 [2] LYTLE CREEK ROAD / TON OF SMOKE FRM THE AREA
Unit Information
2:02 PM 3 Unit Assigned
2:11 PM 2 Unit Cleared
2:14 PM 1 Unit Assigned
I'm sad to share that 90 percent of Devil's Punchbowl has burned from the #BobcatFire. The nature center and significant plant life and fauna across its 1350 acres have been lost. My office is working with @lacountyparks>:( Took my mother, in her 70s, there for her birthday this year.
to see how we can rebuild and restore this beloved land.
>:( Took my mother, in her 70s, there for her birthday this year.
Had some technical difficulties with the drone, so this is the best I got of us from afar. Destroyed building in upper-left corner.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50373347776_8d6822e3b6_k.jpg)
Dramatic happenings on the way there:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50373476517_9a5a5f3f91_k.jpg)
You were joking about using a drone in a fire area, right?Jim, I'm posting pictures of these places as they appeared before this shameful travesty. But, since we're on the topic.....drones "over" Mt. Wilson yesterday or the day before? Really? I'm wondering how exactly would that occur? The forest is closed, the mountain is 1 mile up and 3.5 miles horizontally from the nearest public road. That's an impressive drone.
Here is a link to the ABC7 Eyewitness News Los Angeles report:
https://abc7.com/sce-utility-equipment-eyed-as-possible-source-of-bobcat-fire/6524096/
Officials said a lack of resources allowed the Bobcat Fire to make a run through the mountains in the initial hours after it started. They say by the time staffing ramped up, flames were already deep in an old-growth forest where the fire had plenty to burn.
SCE: The Bobcat Fire was reported in the vicinity of Cogswell Reservoir/Dam in the Angeles National Forest on Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 12:21 p.m. The Jarvis 12 kV circuit out of Dalton Substation experienced a relay operation at 12:16 p.m. on September 6, 2020. The Mt. Wilson East camera (wildfirealert.org) captured the initial stages of the fire with the first observed smoke as early as approximately 12:10 p.m., prior to the relay operation
The only footage from the same day it started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJk4bdqHskk
Those locations are for LA County and the LA County side of Wrightwood. The "evac warning" status for SB County in Pinon Hills and Wrightwood remains in effect.
101 Structures destroyed. Many are utility structures, many are homes. Not clear what the mix is without looking at all 101.You are partially correct. I'll update my post if I can with the breakdown as it sits now.
Jim, I'm posting pictures of these places as they appeared before this shameful travesty. But, since we're on the topic.....drones "over" Mt. Wilson yesterday or the day before? Really? I'm wondering how exactly would that occur? The forest is closed, the mountain is 1 mile up and 3.5 miles horizontally from the nearest public road. That's an impressive drone.
From Highway 2:
Wright Mountain Road
Right on Zermatt
Right on Lausanne
Left on Orchard
Left on Lone Pine Canyon
GPS can weave you through the area, too
Should we be preparing for possible evac from WW
Is your Cascadia Fire Season post for here? Are they seeing arson fires?
Is that just a matter of wind shift?On an average day, the mountains are warmed by the sun and air lifts above them. By way of being taller than their surroundings, that warmed air gets lifted more than the warm air in the valleys and basins that abut them. When the sun sets that warmed air then falls and spills down the mountains somewhat. If you look closely on some of the weather radar imagery available on the internet you can spot this effect (the radar sometimes sees dust in the air as echos). There is still smoke in the air from the Bobcat fire, I believe. It was quite evident as we saw the sun setting from Azusa canyon.