WrightwoodCalif.com Forum
Public Forums => Outdoors => Topic started by: WaterMeter on Mar 13, 04, 08:56:25 AM
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Let's see how the citizens of Wrightood feel about the approaching summer water conditions.
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I am only waiting for them to tells us to slow down on our water any time now, especially with the summer coming up and the holidays!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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You forgot to add "Too many new homes" to the poll.
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You forgot to add "Too many new homes" to the poll.
I second that!
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Mountain High must not be making snow. Swarthout Creek is weakly flowing!
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so with the increase in homes being built rising since the begining of the water shortage, then why did the water shortage come first? If new homes are responsible, then why does the drop in well levels correspond to the increase in snow making? If you think that the drastic loss in the water table only comes from the minimal demand of new homes, then you are studying "new math" and I need to go back to school............
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Water Meter, do you work for S.C.Water?
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No, thank goodness.
Water Meter, do you work for S.C.Water?
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so with the increase in homes being built rising since the begining of the water shortage, then why did the water shortage come first? If new homes are responsible, then why does the drop in well levels correspond to the increase in snow making? If you think that the drastic loss in the water table only comes from the minimal demand of new homes, then you are studying "new math" and I need to go back to school............
;D ;D ;D
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so with the increase in homes being built rising since the begining of the water shortage, then why did the water shortage come first? If new homes are responsible, then why does the drop in well levels correspond to the increase in snow making? If you think that the drastic loss in the water table only comes from the minimal demand of new homes, then you are studying "new math" and I need to go back to school............
Ummm the 1st major water shortage was in june/july... several months after mt high had closed for the season... ::) ::) ::)
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Ummm the 1st major water shortage was in june/july... several months after mt high had closed for the season... ::) ::) ::)
Yep, several months earlier - pumped dry right when the water table should be recharging.
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Yep, several months earlier - pumped dry right when the water table should be recharging.
i guess the dates don't, in fact, correspond.
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Uhh, first of all, the point of my post wasn't that the date of the first major loss was in or around snow-making time, only that many of the dates DO in fact correspond with the snow making process. Obviously we don't blow snow in July, but the fact is that with an increase in snow-making, the well levels have dropped. Water Meter is right when he says that the wells should have been recharging at that time. They should not have dropped as drastically as they did over that time period. Is it just me or did we all forget that SCWC showed that the well levels dropped over 40 feet over 4th of July weekend two years ago. I don't think that building a new house next door could have contributed to that drastic of a decline.
When does Mt. High charge their reservoir(s)??
And I know that they don't use a garden hose to fill it either.........
What does anybody else think could have caused the substantial loss that we experienced and never found a cause for (see SCWC- all inquiries into the cause of the loss being of seismic nature came back "inconclusive.") I know that I'm not the only one who has looked into this and found that the answer time and time again continues to come back the same.
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So Cal Water was suppose to have a meeting to discuss the water conditions in Wrightwood, last week. Anyone hear any results from the meeting?
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Swarthout Creek flowed before snow making. Simple statement!
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yeah? It was about 3 inches deep at best. Is that little creek supposed to provide water for the rest of wrightwood? Explain to me how this water is supposed to reach the east canyon area.
If that tiny little stream is all we are missing due to snow making, then we are in pretty good shape.
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When does Mt. High charge their reservoir(s)??
And I know that they don't use a garden hose to fill it either.........
Looks like it's being refilled right now while the water table should be recharging.
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/MtHigh/4_19_04Comp.jpg)
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yeah? It was about 3 inches deep at best. Is that little creek supposed to provide water for the rest of wrightwood? Explain to me how this water is supposed to reach the east canyon area.
If that tiny little stream is all we are missing due to snow making, then we are in pretty good shape.
The winter of 2000/2001 provided mt. high with record breaking natural snowfall not to mention (according to mt. high) record breaking flatlander visits. The next winter 2001/2002 was a very poor season for natural snow. As a former employee I witnessed around the clock snow making at both the east and west side for most of the season. They were trying to gain as many visits as possible. Just so you know...you need the white stuff on the ground to get flatlanders up here. Now on or about Feb 20 2002 I was in on a mt. high sub management meeting when the Director of marketing was having a huge outburst because some of the snow making employees had leaked out to the public that mt. high was out of water and could not make snow. (bad.. bad publicity for southern calif. #1 resort) The snow making halted for the next 3 weeks or more. I really find it peculiar that July of 02 the water ran dry in our EAST side of town for 2/3 days. Once again this happend the summer after mt. high had made as much snow as possible the previous winter. Yeah..... I guess its all those new homes...especially all those new homes going up on the EAST side of town......
Come on!!!
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MOUNTAIN HIGH IS HIJACKING THE LOCAL WATER SUPPLY.
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Why is Southern California Water so strangely silent about this?
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They might have to give up crabbing at US Wrightwoodians to CONSERVE water.
:P
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So if domestic water use isn't nearly enough to start a drought, how is watering my lawn going to make any difference?
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So if domestic water use isn't nearly enough to start a drought, how is watering my lawn going to make any difference?
Drought is caused by nature, not humans wasting water.
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when the water co. stops issueing meters, I'll believe that there is a REAL water shortage!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't think they can stop issuing them. If the county issues the building permit, the water company can't refuse to provide water, can they?
What if we had so little water that we had to truck it in, would you believe there was a water shortage then?
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New residential water meters make little difference on the volume of water used in Wrightwood.
Here's some facts that back that up:
In January 2002 SCWC could produce 1200 gallons per minute from it's Wrightwood wells.
That's 1,728,000 gallons per day.
The average water meter connection uses between 153 gallons per day to 384 gallons per day.
What this all means is that SCWC could have supported up to 4500 water meter connections during the peak summer months before the water table was drained by snowmaking and not replenished.
In 1990 there were 2438 water meter connections in Wrightwood
In 2002 there were 2595 water meter connections in Wrightwood
An increase of 157 meters in a 12 year period.
There are issues that we need to continue to focus on:
-We are currently experiencing drought conditions.
-Every resident and business must do their share to conserve and use water wisely
-Water being diverted from Swarthout for snow making must stop immediately as the State of CA holds domestic water use as the highest priority. The State Constitution also requires all water use in CA to be "beneficial and reasonable".
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New residential water meters make little difference on the volume of water used in Wrightwood.
Here's some facts that back that up:
In January 2002 SCWC could produce 1200 gallons per minute from it's Wrightwood wells.
That's 1,728,000 gallons per day.
The average water meter connection uses between 153 gallons per day to 384 gallons per day.
What this all means is that SCWC could have supported up to 4500 water meter connections during the peak summer months before the water table was drained by snowmaking and not replenished.
In 1990 there were 2438 water meter connections in Wrightwood
In 2002 there were 2595 water meter connections in Wrightwood
An increase of 157 meters in a 12 year period.
There are issues that we need to continue to focus on:
-We are currently experiencing drought conditions.
-Every resident and business must do their share to conserve and use water wisely
-Water being diverted from Swarthout for snow making must stop immediately as the State of CA holds domestic water use as the highest priority. The State Constitution also requires all water use in CA to be "beneficial and reasonable".
Great points water meter..... may I add over the last 6 years mt. high as had a much more aggressive approach to their snow making efforts.... spending tons of money on new snow making equipment......round the clock snowmaking etc.....I have been here 13 years and my relatives for almost 25 years. I have never seen or heard of the water running dry up here until July 02 the summer after mt. high was making snow at every moment when conditions allowed. They made so much snow that season that at the end of Feb 02 they were out of water and snowmaking finally stopped.. as did my faucets later that summer.....coincidental???
Who do we contact so mt. high is forced to regulate their water useage???
:-/
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Wow! As a "newbee" to Wrightwood this is astounding! Wouldn't the basic water needs of the town come before snowmaking? How can this happen? When did snow making become "beneficial and reasonable" when water has to be trucked in for domestic use??
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O.K. and the fact that the 01/02 winter was the driest in recorded history had nothing to do with the water shortage?
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Combine the drought with expanded and unregulated snowmaking, and the results can currently be seen
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I would agree with TableMtn that our water shortage is partially related to drought conditions during the past handful of years.
What I don't understand is how a corporation buys a ski resort, puts millions of dollars into snow making equipment and increase water consumption "dramatically" during severe drought conditions.
Remember what John McColly, Director of Marketing said on November 10 2003, a month before any natural snowfall : "We received a huge amount of media from being the first resort to open in the region. Plus we always open with good coverage and a strong assortment of terrain features so guests know what to expect. This year's opening on November 3rd was Mountain High's earliest ever. "
During severe drought conditions?
Where did all the water come from that gave them good coverage ?
Maybe a good portion of it came from Swarthout Creek where Wrightwood residents domestic water supply is in critical condition.
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Yet no one mentions the country clubs pumping to fill the lake!! We are members and love the club but it's interesting that we look the other way when it comes to Mt. High / water issues.
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Isn't the Country Club lake empty? The last time I walked by there, there wasn't a drop of water in it. Maybe they have filled it since then.
Even if they have filled it, I think there is a difference. I don't think the Country Club has a well - they have a water meter. They can't pump unlimited amounts of water out of our water table unmonitored.
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Correct me if I am wrong: I believe years ago that the country club lake used to be two natural lakes called "twin lakes". These two lakes were the result of a natural spring. Someone developed it and joined the two lakes into one and put a control on the water flow from the natural spring. I am sure that if the lake's water had anything to do with taking away from the town's supply that I -- along with other members -- would agree to have a dry lake until the drought ends. I highly doubt that Mt. High would stop making snow if we find they are causing the town's water to run dry sooner than normal.
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Ensen:
Today the lake was about half filled.
Saw it on making the Garden Tour rounds.....
::)
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I believe that the majority of the wells that service Wrightwood are well above the Country Club elevationally.
The other lake of "Twin Lakes" was a trout pond where the baseball field is now.
The Country Club is on the San Andreas fault (and whose fault is that, anyway?), which explains the ground water being close to the surface. Other similar areas of high water table are Robin Lake (now Robin Circle) and Wright Lake (filled in and now the overgrown area at Mill and Mockingbird).
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The same question about the Country Club was asked in another topic. The Club does have a legal right to use the water and is used by hundreds of families so it does not appear to be an abuse in my mind.
No, I am not a member of the club so my opinion is not swayed from personal wants.
The Country Club lake is a natural sag pond located on the San Andreas fault; along with Jackson Lake, Wright Lake, Lost Lake, etc.
The Country Club does choose to regulate when they fill or empty the lake so it is a little different. The water does have the ability to percolate back into the Swarthout Creek where it came from and that's one of the key issues.
Since Swarthout Creek is recognized as a subterranean flow of a stream, recognized by the State Water Commission with case references back to 1899, the owners of the Country Club have a right as a riparian owner to the water. Let's not forget that Sumner B. Wright and Kate S. Wright have used water from Swarthout Creek under riparian and prescriptive rights since 1888. (all documented in State Water Commission records and that's what makes water law in our state)
Now that's not the case with MH water usage. It's a "whole" different story.
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With Wrightwood residents facing a domestic water shortage Mt High isn't about to stop filling their big reservoir. The East reservoir is now at 44 feet.
Get ready for another Mt High early opening.
Here's their tentative event schedule:
http://www.usasa.org/schedules.lasso?-token=browse&month=11&-maxRecords=all&-sortfield=day&-sortfield=series&-sortorder=ascending&-database=regions.fp3&-layout=schedules&-search
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Lisa Posted "The same question about the Country Club was asked in another topic. The Club does have a legal right to use the water and is used by hundreds of families so it does not appear to be an abuse in my mind.
No, I am not a member of the club so my opinion is not swayed from personal wants. "
Now you're making sense, so I'm sure you'll agree that if Mountain High has the legal right to use it's water and the resort is enjoyed by "THOUSANDS" of families it's also not an abuse, in your mind.
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To compare the Wrightwood Country Club's water usage with that of Mt High's is like comparing apples and oranges.
Your comment "if Mountain High has the legal right to use it's water" is way off base just the way it's phrased. Mt High has no water rights as those rights belong to the forest service.
Mt High's water use is a complicated issue with many facets.
One aspect to look at is the issue on the source of the water and where it's being diverted. Mt high is pumping water from Swarthout Canyon and moving the water to Mescal water shed and that's not allowed with riparian water rights under California's water law.
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Mt High's water use is a complicated issue with many facets.
One aspect to look at is the issue on the source of the water and where it's being diverted. Mt high is pumping water from Swarthout Canyon and moving the water to Mescal water shed and that's not allowed with riparian water rights under California's water law.
I am looking forward to the results of the SCWC hydro-geology report. If what you say is true, then I hope it will be disclosed in their findings.
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Thanks for the information. Please do let us know what Shawn has to say.
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Any new information from Shawn as of yet?
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I wonder what mt. high's special use permit says about their water usage??
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I wonder what mt. high's special use permit says about their water usage??
Does not address volumes of usage, I can tell you that.
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sounds kinda criminal to me
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why dont they tell people to stop building. We already dont have enough water >:(
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wasn't there a moritorium last time we had a drought in the 80's
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Has anyone else noticed a drop in water pressure?
???
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Yumm, shrimp! I think they water themselves, last I heard.
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why dont they tell people to stop building. We already dont have enough water >:(
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wasn't there a moritorium last time we had a drought in the 80's
I don't know but they should put one in now!!!!!
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There was a building moritorium in the mid 80's because of the water situation, then in the early 90's they lifted it and as you know building went crazy.
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Now that this topic has been brought to the top again -
What is the current water level situations in the wells and storage tanks?
Have not heard anything lately.
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Now that this topic has been brought to the top again -
What is the current water level situations in the wells and storage tanks?
Have not heard anything lately.
I spoke with someone from the water company on Monday and they said the water table is definitely rising.
If we have additional periods of heavy snow/rain during the next 3 months, don't be surprised if water doesn't start percolating out of the blue zone areas this year ;)
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:)
Good to hear that they are on the rise. Hope it stays in the ground!
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Is there a map of where the blue zones are?
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Yes there are maps of the blue zone.
When you buy a house in Wrightwood, the real estate agent should let you know if your house is in it or not.
Mandatory flood insurance is one of the less pleasant "side effects". So are springs under your house after very wet winters. But it doesn't happen too often.
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As I remember, when water percolates out of the ground after wet winters, it's in Robin Circle (formerly Robin Lake), the old apple orchard west of Acorn, west of Acorn at Snowbird, west of Cardinal at Swallow Hill, Swallow Hill east of Logwood, and the area south of the water company maintenance building on the water road just west of Swallow Hill.
Anyone know of other spots?
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The "Blue Zone" seems to shift, depending upon to whom one is speaking!!!!
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As I remember, when water percolates out of the ground after wet winters, it's in Robin Circle (formerly Robin Lake), the old apple orchard west of Acorn, west of Acorn at Snowbird, west of Cardinal at Swallow Hill, Swallow Hill east of Logwood, and the area south of the water company maintenance building on the water road just west of Swallow Hill.
Anyone know of other spots?
On Mill St. where Wright's Lake used to be.
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Is there any info regarding MH water usuage since meters where put into place ( I think last summer)?
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Lisa - I hope you see this or someone tells you about it - can you please send me your references or links to the statements below about the 1899 designation - or if someone else knows.... this will benefit us all - we do not want to become Big Bear or the like and we need to maintain the rights we have - we be small - but the gross income of this area probably makes up for most of San Bernardino City! We need COunty services to be dolled out fairly
THank you VERY MUCH - all help appreciated!
Greenfencejumper
The same question about the Country Club was asked in another topic. The Club does have a legal right to use the water and is used by hundreds of families so it does not appear to be an abuse in my mind.
No, I am not a member of the club so my opinion is not swayed from personal wants.
The Country Club lake is a natural sag pond located on the San Andreas fault; along with Jackson Lake, Wright Lake, Lost Lake, etc.
The Country Club does choose to regulate when they fill or empty the lake so it is a little different. The water does have the ability to percolate back into the Swarthout Creek where it came from and that's one of the key issues.
Since Swarthout Creek is recognized as a subterranean flow of a stream, recognized by the State Water Commission with case references back to 1899, the owners of the Country Club have a right as a riparian owner to the water. Let's not forget that Sumner B. Wright and Kate S. Wright have used water from Swarthout Creek under riparian and prescriptive rights since 1888. (all documented in State Water Commission records and that's what makes water law in our state)
Now that's not the case with MH water usage. It's a "whole" different story.
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Hmmm.
It says that this person has THREE postings...
Yet only this ONE is available to view.
I am unable to decipher what this person wants this info for...
Anyone else feel more illuminated by this post than I do?
Do you think he is a Wrightwoodian?
Or a pro Mountain High person?
This is very early for me to be up and I don't drink coffee...
So maybe I'm the only one confused by the intention here ???
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greenfencejumper,
Suspicious? Are you serious?
It's hard to believe that you would wait 2.5 years to complain about a deleted coyote posting. Maybe your posting was off topic, posted in the wrong area or mistakenly deleted. We've had lots of coyote postings that are not deleted. The other deleted post that your referring to, I have no idea what it is.
What do these topics have to do with a water shortage topic?
I am certainly suspicious because 2 posts cant be seen - if you ask the maker of this web site you will probably find out that they are so old they are no longer here. As I recall they were about people feeding coyotes and other wildlife which is illegal and bad for the wildlife as well.
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Sorry but you are off base here - I think you need to re-read my post and the reply to it wherein LasPulgas on May 30 makes me sounds suspicious and quesitons my motives about a WATER question in a Water string - because I have had only 3 posts and BUT 2 cant be seen... and then even questions if I live in Wrightwood! I am not complaining about anything - I dont care how long you keep things on here - and no they were not off topic as I recall I may have even started the string and it went of for a long while.
It is not me that is complaining, I am only responding to an unproductive and off-base reply -
check it out - then you will see what I am talking about you must have missed it - it might be better to have people ask productive questions than question motives and numbers of posts I would think
Thanks
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I see the misunderstanding on the syntax here becasue LasPulgas reply is entered above my post for some reason with one other - I am not in any way saying you are suspicious - I was being made to sound that way due to the deletions
So you got me - I dont know why replies show up as entered before my actual post
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I take that last one back - just my poor grammer - posts in right order - I should have referrred specifically to LasPulgas remarks but thought it would be read
Sorry!
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All is forgiven!!! No worries....
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Thanks now if I could just get the info!
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Just as a semi disinterested third party. All the information you're looking for is available, for free, on the web. But it takes many hours of time searching out that information. That's time that someone else spent to do the research. Just my personal opinion here, but that time has value. I'm sure I would just not give out for free, something that I spent many hours, and alot of talent, researching. if you just start to search the web, using a good search engine, not google, and dedicate two or three days to the process, I'm sure you can find what you need. Then maybe you can post the facts here for everybody.
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Perhaps you should try the other side of the bed when you get up tomorrow. ;)
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It bothers me to see Swarthout Creek running as fast as the County can send it into the Mojave Desert. Cucamonga Creek, on the other side of the mountains, is guided through a set of settling basins to enrich the water table before it goes into the San Gabriel/Pomona Valley..
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I saw some pictures of guys white water rafting down Swarthout Creek last week and it looked like a blast. Maybe someone will post pictures.
Swarthout Creek does have a unique history. Trout fishing, christmas tree farm and now a navigable water way!
I can see it now: American River (Middle Fork), American River (North Fork), American River (South Fork), Cal Salmon River, Kaweah River, Stanislaus River, Klamath River (Upper) - Swarthout Creek (Upper Hwy2) and Swarthout Creek (Lower Hwy2)
Putting in settling basins would enhance the experience!
This will be a hot topic at this months Southern California White Water Tour Association and whoever is the concessionaire for photos will make a bundle.
Our club is planning on making it an all day event and will be there soon!
Bring on the Duckies and Haystacks - see you there.
It bothers me to see Swarthout Creek running as fast as the County can send it into the Mojave Desert. Cucamonga Creek, on the other side of the mountains, is guided through a set of settling basins to enrich the water table before it goes into the San Gabriel/Pomona Valley..
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Count me in!!!
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After reading the posts, I have come to the conclusion that greenfencejumper is a suit. Pretty arrogant one at that.....my guess is someone that is pretty full of their own self importance. Someone who obviously has a vested interested in this topic but has a reason why they don't want us to know.
We've been rafting Swarthout Creek for at least 35 years whenever there has enough run off. Best year was 1977. We put canoes into the creek and rode them down to Desert Front Road. Worst year was 1986. We basically had to walk the creek carrying the raft.
We are organizing a mass rafting next week and will go for the record-100 rafts in a day. We're inviting the newspapers, Channel 7 and all the other local stations to come up to share the event with everyone. World's smallest white water rafting!
I think we should be working for a wild river designation for Swarthout Creek. That way, we could restore the trout and beaver and take out all of the man made things that cross the creek.
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Interesting observation Wildman about greenfencejumper being a suit. I was sort of thinking lawyer myself.
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Wildman,
What day are you doing that?? that would be fun to do or watch..
Thanks.
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Yah, Wildman count me in too. I wonder if we could start our tours. Like the ones up at Kern river. Bet we could make a fortune. ;)
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So someone was rafting in the creek, greenfence saw it or heard about it, and being a lawyer can't just see the fun in it but has to get his/her pants in a knot. Is this right? I don't know about that. That seems too paranoid to me. This probably has nothing to do with that. But I can tell a lawyer from miles away, and this sure sounds like one.
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Ok, here's a productive question. Why do you care, and so why should we care (really, not being sarcastic) about this 1899 designation all of the sudden? Just be straight.
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(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forumimg/news/whitewater3a.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forumimg/news/whitewater1b.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forumimg/news/whitewater2b.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forumimg/news/whitewater5a.JPG)
(http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forumimg/news/whitewater4a.JPG)
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That is awesome!!! lol
... but the writing on the side of the boat keeps moving and changing ...
how totally fun!!! thanks for sharing the pics!
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Those crazy boys! What good pictures!
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It goes with the flow ;D
That is awesome!!! lol
... but the writing on the side of the boat keeps moving and changing
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Hiked up Government Canyon to the large waterfall this morning. Here is the begining of Swarthout Creek. The water flow is quite impressive and the noise is deafening. The last picture is from the bottom of the large waterfall looking up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/Chesslike/waterfallhike6-05030.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/Chesslike/waterfallhike6-05039.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/Chesslike/waterfallhike6-05045.jpg)
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Looks a little steep for white water rafting in that area.
Very nice pictures BostonBob.
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Looks a little steep for white water rafting in that area.
Very nice pictures BostonBob.
Thanks WW and I know you are joking about rafting in that area, but I did find a nice fat snowboard with bindings at the bottom of that waterfall that was in good shape. That thing was heavy to carry all the way home and down the steep slopes of the canyon. I didn't find any bodies in the creek so I assume someone lost it on top of Mtn. High. 8)
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Just awesome photos Bob! That is so beautiful!!
Good job!
:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
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Ha......LOL
Last time I looked on here there was a post by some ding dong saying he gets paid a lot of money to do research.......funny how he can't get any info on this topic.....maybe he needs to go back to "Research School" or something....... ::)
Just wanted to say that the photos of the guys (I know Dan pretty good) and the other guy in the boat was pretty darn funny...... :2thumbsup:
Also, nice photos BostonBob.......Is that an easy hike?
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I think we should be working for a wild river designation for Swarthout Creek. That way, we could restore the trout and beaver and take out all of the man made things that cross the creek.
There are quite a few properties that require stream crossings to access their houses. Are you suggesting these people should be forced to abandon their property?
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So all the people who live off of Cardinal and Flume Canyon would have to walk all the way up and down the hill every day? Where would they all park?
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So all the people who live off of Cardinal and Flume Canyon would have to walk all the way up and down the hill every day? Where would they all park?
Walking doesn't sound that unreasonable....does it? Might start a fitness trend that would benefit us all. Folks will be able to park in dirt lots that parallel the highway. Folks closer to the main part of town who live on the North side of the creek will pay to park in the lot across from the AM/PM. The lot is fenced and safer then just being on the street.
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Swarthout Creek already has a specific designation by the Army Corp of Engineers. This waterway has been the topic of discussion for over a hundred years as it feeds the Mojave valley. A great deal of history is documented in CA Water Resources decisions that can be found online and it does take plenty of work.
I think we should be working for a wild river designation for Swarthout Creek. That way, we could restore the trout and beaver and take out all of the man made things that cross the creek.
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Everyone needs to be careful of the property rights of the riparian owner(s).
Some states have ruled that one who floats upon the waters of a river or stream over or through private property, without touching the stream banks or beds, does not commit a criminal trespass, because the essential element of entering or remaining in or upon "premises," which includes banks or beds, is missing.
With that said, be carefull not to be on the private property of others.
SAF
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greenfencejumper,
Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't sound like you're really interested in the riparian rights of the water "itself". The State Water Commission rulings and decisions are online that address Swarthout Creek as being a subterranean flow, of a stream.
It sounds more like you're looking for research information regarding river law in California. Here's a research link that may help in your quest:
http://www.nors.org/states/ca-law.htm
See, Wrightwood is a small sandbox and we do try to play nice ;D
Lisa - I hope you see this or someone tells you about it - can you please send me your references or links to the statements below about the 1899 designation - or if someone else knows.... this will benefit us all - we do not want to become Big Bear or the like and we need to maintain the rights we have - we be small - but the gross income of this area probably makes up for most of San Bernardino City! We need COunty services to be dolled out fairly
THank you VERY MUCH - all help appreciated!
Greenfencejumper
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I'm sure the people who were illegally detained, while rafting down Swarthout Creek last week will be interested in your research.
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Off the path a bit, but is anyone elses water rusty orange today? I live on lark / division side
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Hey Bostonbob, Those pictures were great and made me want to see the falls up close and personal. How do you get to Government Canyon? Thanks :sunny:
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Hey Bostonbob, Those pictures were great and made me want to see the falls up close and personal. How do you get to Government Canyon? Thanks :sunny:
Also, nice photos BostonBob.......Is that an easy hike?
It is a fairly easy hike, you just have to be careful of all the loose material along the canyon walls. To get to it you just follow Swarthout Creek all the way up until you get to the Water Co. property. Take their dirt road until you get to the two huge water tanks which are just east of Mtn. High East. Just follow the canyon up from the water tanks.
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Hey those are great pics. George looks like he is really enjoying himself.
And greenfencejumper sounds like he getting a little defensive. Hmmmmmm, I wonder why. What's the big deal?
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Wow! Looks like fun! I may have to get myself a raft. Lisa, as usual, you've come through with great information.
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That there's pretty funny Wildman! :crazy:
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;) But only for those of us with a sense of humor, I'm guessing. ???
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That there's pretty funny Wildman! :crazy:
OK. Am I missing something or did some posts on this thread just go away? I have been having trouble seeing threads sometimes.
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Not that I would ever instigate anything......but.....I'll bet Cajon Creek is REALLY high this year! A person could start where Swarthout Canyon Road crosses the creek, and go down to Devore (at least).
Take pictures.
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OK Shrew-lovers they're at it again. I got a call from my business partner ,this evening, and it seems as though the Swathout Canyon Whitewater Rafting Company is going to try the bottom section again tomorrow whether they half to walk half of it or not. Sounds like they're packing a water-proof folder loaded with government paper challenging anyone who dares to stop their adventure. I asked my Bud if he couid get me a ride and he said they can't take anyone as they need to complete this section quietly for insurance and precedents or something like that!?. Sounds like they're setting up for next years 3 to 4 weeks of tours to me? I can't wait to see those pictures again ! He told me where they're are going in but I'm not supposed to relay that to anyone. I may try to surprise them behind the post-office section, as the head down. Bud said they wouldn't mind it there. I want a ride, ONLY IN WRIGHTWOOD.
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YoMama,
I've got my documents laminated.
To qualify as navigable river, just remember that the legal test is based on the river's natural conditions.
The natural conditions in question existed before upstream pumping began to fill holding ponds and snow making. There's records to prove that Swarthout Creek flowed nearly every year before man intervened upstream.
Streams that are navigable, for title purposes, are owned by the states, held in trust for the public. We are the public.
Take a look at Luker's Place historic photos when trout fishing was offered. Navigation, fishing, and commerce existed in Swarthout Creek long before housing existed.
I'll never advocate trespassing but public access may exist on Caltrans property that is adjacent to Hwy2.
Remember... Navigability is determined as of the date of statehood not after snowmaking!
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Hey WaterwayRights, It all sounds great to me, I'm just an old surfer dude who loves the water. My partner did say that Swarthout Creek's naturally eroded width is considered by the federal and state government to be for public usage and anyone changing or diverting said natural course is restricting the rights of anyone to use that natural area. This area is considered sacred to the public whether there is access or not.I quess said ponds and water draw off is limiting my play area or maybe giving my a better beachhead? Um, can those guys set up camp if it's naturally wide enough?
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Yo Water Babies, Saw the Swarthout Canyon Whitewater Expedition today. They weren't kidding!! You really can raft Swarthout Canyon/Creek. Took lots of pictures to follow. They made it half way to Hwy 138. I'm first on the next ride!!!! Can't wait.
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Crawdad crawlers, fishermen and yellow legged frog enthusiasts will be happy to hear that areas of Swarthout Creek that have been recently altered are being checked by authorities.
The publicly owned waterways will be protected for all water activities, not just those crazy kayakers.
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I'm researching the pictures right now from around 1910 or so with some local fishermen holding up a string of 25 trout. Glad to hear that "the authorities" are on the case. It will sure make our water activities easier next year.
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Looks like will be facing a water shortage soon as Mountain High is bragging that in the first few days of snowmaking, Mountain High's system ran through 10 million gallons of water.
With 60 guns set on average flow, the system consumes 2,000 gallons of water per minute.
I wonder why they are allowed to pump water from Swarthout's water table and mve it to the Mescal water table?
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-snow23dec23,0,3230752.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines
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Yep, it looks great! I have been skiing about 10 times already.
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This winter may prove to be a "water disaster" for Mountain High unless we get some help from mother nature.
Last years record precipitation recharged the Swarthout water table to overflow condition while Wrightwood's water usage remains fairly constant. Yes, water usage has gone up due to increased construction and population but those numbers have not and will not see large jumps and don't forget that Southern California Water (Golden State) has maintained detailed records over the years.
So far this season Mountain High has pumped as much or more water for snow making than any time in history. This years record pumping will not slip through the cracks as it has in the past because the forest service required meters installed on all pumps 2 years ago.
Just remember when summer '06 rolls along and the Swarthout water table is much lower than expected, the pumping records for Mountain High will indicate usage far beyond anyone expectations, unless the weather patters change soon.
WaterMeter
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2,000 gallons a minute they say...
How many flushes of those low flow toilets given away last summer does it take to save 2,000 gallons?
I'm looking to purchase a home in Wrightwood and when I do I won't feel the need to conserve water as long as MtHigh is using water to the tune of 2000 gallons a minute.
I'll be beyond outspoken when I'm a a property/home owner in the community. My other pet peeve is residence that drive way to fast in the residential areas of Wrightwood. People catch on quicker by example, set an example and drive slower.
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I heard some locals talking at the Yodeler that white water rafting conditions should be excellent this year :thumbs:
I know our family is looking forward to enjoying some crazy kayaking in our local navigable river.
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Ah YES EVERY TIME IT SNOWS,I FIGURE IT RAISES THE HEIGHT OF OUR RAFT ANOTHER 1/4 INCH. THE FLOTILA IS COMING! HOLD ON FOR MORE INFORMATION AS THE SEASON GETS UNDERWAY, Thanks SWARTHOUT CANYON WHITEWATER RAFTING COMPANY
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