Road Congestion Concern

[ralberts630]

Perhaps this issue has been addressed in the past...

Yesterday it took a friend 7 hrs to drive from Phelan to Wrightwood. Every road into town and out was practically at a standstill and backed up for miles. No news to anyone who has tried to get around town the last few days. This obviously creates a major hinderance for emergency responders to Mtn. High.

I'm far more concerned, however, about what would take place should a natural disaster occur during a snow day: forest fire (unlikely), spreading house fire (almost happened two weeks ago!), serious earthquake.

Residents and visitors could not escape. Responders could not respond. Available food supplies would soon dwindle. Community services (water, sewage, trash) would be over-taxed. Thousands of visitors would be without shelter, food, adequate clothing, etc. Chaos, unrest, violence could very well result. Depending on the nature of the disaster thousands of lives could be put at stake.

I'm wondering if a county, state, federal agency could restrict the number of vehicles coming into the area, given the fact that Wrightwood sits within the bounds of the Angeles National Forest.

My sons call me Eeyore.


(Eeyore is a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, anhedonic, old grey stuffed donkey who is a friend of Winnie-the-Pooh.)

[Jim Wilkins]

The answer to your statements are yes.  It is happening and could certainly be a bad deal if we had a sudden snowfall after a clear morning turning the roads (and the snow pilgrims) into icicles.   

This is a discussion and an issue that has taken place since 1972 when I moved and began working for the FD here.  It is a challenge that is made more difficult by Google Maps and Waze.   This is also a discussion that I am sure was held since the 1920's when lines of Model T's crammed into gridlock at Big Pines Recreation Area Park. 

It is also a good reason to be prepared for food supplies dwindling, being able to supple heat and light in your home and what plans you might have if someone was to bang on your door demanding your food. 

The answer to your question is no.  It has been asked a number of times over the years with always the same answer.  No.

[tcaarabians]

Rick and Jim,  Great points. In my own experience, sometimes you have to take a good number of 'no's'.. before you get a 'yes.'  From the I-15 to the 138 to the 2 to Mountain High and beyond - there are multiple agencies and jurisdictions.  Bringing them together to form a cohesive plan obviously isn't easy. I understand there have been numerous attempts to do just that. 

I still do not understand why there can't be an official assessment/designation of 'it's at breaking point and is not safe' determination that would allow turning back non-residents.  You know, they're not going to get there anyway if it's backed up to the 15.  cheryl o7o

[Bob C]

I still do not understand why there can't be an official assessment/designation of 'it's at breaking point and is not safe' determination that would allow turning back non-residents.  You know, they're not going to get there anyway if it's backed up to the 15.  cheryl o7o

The last time CHP did close SR-2, it was because of ice/snow that hadn't been plowed yet, during a storm. They don't seem to think gridlock is the same kind of concern. Baffles me, too

[Chuck]

Plus, Road Closures are not an option for CHP, without Sacramento approval.  Temporary road closures are possible due to issues like Bob mentioned (ice, dangerous safety issues, gridlock is not one).  As long as County Fire can move around, gridlock will not result in temporary road closures by CHP.  If any changes are to occur it has to come from Sacramento.  We are not alone in Wrightwood.  Same problems happen in Big Bear, Arrowhead and other Mountain communities.  Words of road closures in those areas may have temporarily happened due to road safety issues, but not gridlock (this comes from top CHP and Sheriff personnel).    There has been pent up snow fever for 5 years now, we finally got needed snow, but the crowds came with it.   

Issues of porto potties and trash locations are all issues we have discussed many times but have not found a solution.  Where to place them?  Parking for where they are placed?  Its all private property once you get into this area, who is going to put them on their property?  Then they are responsible to have parking for them.   Other areas are National Forest.  Where do you place there?  Where do they park?   

These are all very tough issues to deal with.  Nothing new, still valid issues and concerns.  No local agencies have the power to do something that is not lawful.  Goes to Sacramento.  These are state and federal issues (unfortunately).

What can be done?  Call the Sheriff and CHP for help.  Our local officers are not at fault for any of this.  They get help when more calls are made.  People should not park illegally, they should not trespass, they should not trash our area.  Call our agencies politely, call our Supervisors office politely, call our state representatives.

Don't spread rumors on Facebook.  Don't stir up anger and hate on Facebook.  Unfortunately Facebook is a haven for misinformation.  It is useless to try to communicate there.  People that get things done don't form a lench mob behind them to get recognition.  Channels exists.   

It is good to try to make the situation better, maybe someone can come up with some solution none of us have thought of over the past decade plus.           

[Toolman]

I remember another large overcrowding instance, I think it was the 2010 heavy snow year when we were at max capacity in the Big Pines and beyond out to Vincent Gap. There where three of us patrol volunteers, Roberts 260 (LACSD S&R) one CHP working the area. We were writing Adventure pass violations and the CHP officer rolled up and asked if we could help evacuate every one from the far end Vincent Gap to the intersection of SR2 and BP Highway. We obliged, I got the Roberts team on the radio and we all assisted this CHP officer in evacuating the area. It was a bit of a challenge getting everyone out of Grassy Hollow. Thanks to the Roberts rig using their PA. We got every one out in about an hour and We closed the gate at mile marker 80. That's the gate a few hundred yards west of mountain high west parking entrance. We, collectively kept traffic moving downhill on Big Pines Highway. I remember having conversations with the other officers and all of us looking at each other saying, wow, this is working well, and it did. Keeping the vehicles moving was the key element. We told them to keep moving when they asked directions. This worked well into the afternoon. Then, it happens. The original CHP officer leaves and we had a shift change around 3pm. Two CHP units arrived and asked us why the gate was closed. We all looked at each other and said, well it was the other CHP officer we assisted for the evacuation. Silence, he gets on the radio for a moment and then tells us to unlock the gate. Dumbfounded, I strolled over and told the Caltrans guy I have to open the gate. He's dumbfounded to. After opening the gate it was a mess again. What we had going worked very well. My partners and I decided it's now after 4pm and we were done for the day. We took care of our paperwork and tried to drive back into town. It took us over 3 hrs. to go 4 miles. I haven't been back to volunteer during the Christmas New Year break since. I'll work any other holiday weekend but that. I went up early yesterday to document pictures I noticed the MM 80 gate was closed, a road closed sign and a detour to 138 sign in place. That was shear brilliance who ever decided to do that. Keeping them moving does work. Enforcing the no parking areas, that's always been a problem.

[Cheapskate]

A natural disaster occurred in August...response was mandatory evacuation, easy to get out, impossible to get in (followed by danged difficult to get in unless you could prove residency).  Perhaps former Speaker Pelosi would say: you'll find out what the response will be when the disaster happens. 

[tcaarabians]

Three really great and informative posts by Bob C, Toolman and Chuck.  These insights add to an informative discussion. Thanks to all three of you. cheryl o7o

[Wrightwood]

During 1929-1930 it was impossible to keep up with traffic and parking in Big Pines using at least 19 people.





Today every person with a cell phone has navigation to get them to Wrightwood using every road available.
Don't forget satellite news trucks beaming back fun snow play videos to a metropolitan region population of about 18.7 million people.

[Chuck]

In about 2012 we had a successful Tow Program that worked.  CHP arranged or cooperated with a tow company to tow illegally parked vehicles.  No tow yard here, takes 2-3 hours to tow a car to Phelan area.  Improvisation occurred.   The program was to hide the vehicles somewhere in WW where they could legally be parked.  Once the person arranged to get the vehicle back they were taken to where it was.  We praised CHP for this program.  Following year CHP we were informed they could not do this.  They found out it was  Against the law.  Worked one year:) 

People (those around for while) have often said "They closed the road in 2010 or 2011".  Yes they did.  Unfortunately it was a new CHP Officer that did it and got reprimanded for doing it.  He never did that again

If we could just come up with gray areas to get us through 1 year at a time things might be better (unless lawsuits costs us all for it).

Horrible as it sounds, with our laws, we live in a beautiful place open to all public (just as we visit other places) and can't do much at all but grin and bear it, do our best to report problems early, I mean early.  We have all found that when things are reported early they very often don't get worse.    Do what we can within the law, be civil, enjoy life.  Fortunately it mostly happens with perfect storms and during the holidays. 

We invite people to be involved, better our situations.  Get involved in MAC meetings, Fire Safe Council meetings, Property Owners meetings, Chamber of Commerce meetings.       

Getting Channel 7 up here is just fluff.  Get people excited.  Media is great for this.  Unfortunately it just leads to people be educated to what the system is and what they can and can't do.  I guess its moving forward, but extremely frustrating to see people suggest or blame others for the situation,  For example, The proposed CSD will have not say over issues like traffic, law enforcement and such.  Its a County, State and Federal issue.  Only issue a proposed CSD can handle (under the parameters it is structured) is to place a porto pottie at the park areas.  Thats it!  We have restrooms that are already overrun at times like this.  Only enough parking for what it can handle.  More porto potties might create a HAZMAT situation.  But on Facebook you see all kinds of propaganda.           
           

[tcaarabians]

Well, Chuck.. any "Porta in a storm" whether the County installs them or a CSD.  I agree with everything else you just posted.

I did see the Channel 7 piece. And, it was great that they focused on what some of the snow players do with trash, etc.  What I think the media needs to focus on is:  you could sit on the 138 for two hours and on the 2 for another 2 hours or more.  That is likely not what the Chamber would like to promote.. and I certainly understand that they want to promote visitors for the businesses.  It just seems to me that the gridlock is a major part of the problem.  The roads backing up is what contributes to people getting out of their cars to play in the snow.. and often the road. The backup is why they try the side roads up into the residential areas and so forth.

I do hope that CHP officer back when was promoted. Agencies need more people that make decisions. cheryl o7o

[ChrisLynnet]

Do what we can within the law, be civil, enjoy life.  Fortunately it mostly happens with perfect storms and during the holidays... Getting Channel 7 up here is just fluff.  Get people excited.  Media is great for this.  Unfortunately it just leads to people be educated to what the system is and what they can and can't do.  I guess its moving forward, but extremely frustrating to see people suggest or blame others for the situation... But on Facebook you see all kinds of propaganda.           
         

I could not agree more! I visit FB a lot but I had to stop going to the Wrightwood group -- if I read ONE MORE PERSON saying "Charge them $500 for littering!" or "Close Hwy 2!" or "Collect a toll before they come into town!" I am going to scream! 

I'm also sick of the argument "Well, WHAT IF THERE IS AN EARTHQUAKE?" Well, what if there is? God forbid, but we are not going to clear traffic off our roads on the off-chance that the Big One chooses a snowy holiday weekend to hit.

[Chuck]

We use GPS all the time when traveling.  It helps save time avoiding gridlock.  Just traveling to the Hemet area our path can deviate 3 or 4 ways, depending on traffic.  GPS is what has worsened many of our residential issues.  But, it's a fact of life now.  Doesn't make it right what some do, but that is a game changer for many things.  Legal roads!  Lone Pine Canyon was a secret sort of for the first 18 to 20 years of the 24 we have lived here.   

[Hovel Downs]

How is the CSD going to pay for porta potties?

[tcaarabians]

Hovel Downs... First, WW has to approve a CSD. Then, a CSD would have to decide to use some of their park monies for porta-potties and place them in parks if feasible. And before that, they'd have to figure out where they could be placed. The preceding posts in this thread describe how difficult that would be. The County could do so now with the same problems as to where and parking. "It don't come easy,"  Ringo Starr.  cheryl o7o

[jwhays661]

Just traveling to the Hemet area our path can deviate 3 or 4 ways, depending on traffic.

Wow that's a rare mention for my home town there.

[Chuck]

Wow that's a rare mention for my home town there.

sometimes
15 to 215 to 210 to 10 to 79 to San Jacinto (storing rv there)
15 to 215 to 10 to 79
15 to 215 to 74 to hemet
from oc we go 91 to 215 to 60 to 79
One time it had us take Golden Springs road to 60, nice drive
each time it was pretty smooth traffic in those routes
I've trusted it and 85 its been good.  Of the 15% its not we were in Eastlake and the GPS had me going in circles to get to Sprouts and Trader Joes.  After passing the two stores off 125 I callled my gps a few bad names and fired it.  I could see the stores and its still telling me to go in circles:)     

PS, I hate the intersection at 10 and 79!!!!  always congested.

[jwhays661]

PS, I hate the intersection at 10 and 79!!!!  always congested.

The trick is to get off on the 6th street exit just before the 79 exit. Take a right on California Street then a left of 1st and bingo you're on the 79 and you bypass that nasty bridge and the many congestion problems that come with it.

[Chuck]

thank you much!