Adventure Pass

[SkierBob]

Name calling? Come on now Clint, be sure you're not a sharp object yourself (be nice).   In order to be sure someone doesn't get pass one of your alarm systems you must think about how someone might bypass your efforts.  Don't we get paid to this?  

For all the effort put into the Adventure Pass it would be a shame for forgery to go on for years undiscovered. And it's not the $5 day pass that would be forged. It's the annual pass.  Regardless of if you approve of my post or not, those of you involved in checking for Adventure Passes will think of me,   WHEN TAKING A LITTLE CLOSER LOOK AND ACTUALLY VERIFYING THE AUTHINTICITY OF THE PASS.  

I suspect I just hit a nerve since nobody had ever thought how easily the entire Adventure Pass policy could be circumvented while puting thousands of dollars in their pockets.  Why don't you quit beating me up and figure out how you could verify authenticity of an Adventure Pass you can't touch because it's hanging on a mirror inside a locked car.  

If you were going to forge Adventure Passes your first task would be acquiring a real Adventure Pass so that you match the paper, probably at the local office supply store 

I knew a few of you would freak out when I mentioned the plausibility of it all.  Why don't you quit beating me up and start looking a little closer at those Adventure Passes, you may be surprised what you find.  

[Buck]

Skierbob,
Nice try at redemption but now you come off as a backstepping, socially graceless nimcompoop.   Do you think that you are telling the people that check the passes something new? That is even funnier.

[SkierBob]

Skierbob,
Nice try at redemption but now you come off as a backstepping, socially graceless nimcompoop.   Do you think that you are telling the people that check the passes something new? That is even funnier.

I  basically had to spell it out in my second post, I don't think that's back stepping. And what I'm saying is the pass could easily be forged with enough authinticity to prevent it from being discovered by casual observation from outside a locked car.  And so what? my delievery was completely socially graceless, the concept is possible. 

[love_walnuts]

I think they need to re-name the "Adventure Pass" something else.  Something like...

"Park Wherever You Want To Pass"
"Dirty Diaper Dump Card"
"Iced Lake Adventure Pass"
"Astro Van Adventutre Pass"
"You Can't Ticket Me Pass"
"Snow Thieve Pass"
"How To Cook On The Highway Pass"
"We'll Play In Your Yard Pass"

Any other suggestions out there..... 

A "Catch me if you can" pass.
A "Slide down the hill into the highway" pass.

[RobertW]

Those of us writting NNCs are well aware of the usual attempts to get around and thwart the "Adventure Pass" program.  Yesterday I ran into two different vehicles that had expired Adventure Passes displayed with pride (2005 and 2006), no doubt hoping we wouldn't notice they were expired. 

The usual scam is to spend $5.00 for a pass and then not scratch the date off, thus using it over and over hoping the Forest Ranger will be sympathetic and just figure you forgot to scratch the date.

Yesterday on several vehicles who didn't have the date scratched I was able to yell out to the snow players and find out whose car it was.  I then asked them to scratch the date of which they willingly complied.  There were about 4 cars whose owner I couldn't find.  They got an NNC for not complying with the Adventure Pass program.  All they have to do is mail their day pass in with the NNC and they will not have to pay the $5.00.  So if they really did forget they won't have to pay anything more than a stamp.  If they've succeeded in the scam for a few times, so be it.  At least the non-scratched Adventure Pass will be taken off the streets.

Forging is a crime.  It is done by Thieves and is a criminal activity whether you are forging Adventure Passes, personal checks or $1000 bills.  It blows my mind someone would suggest or recommend criminal activity of any kind on a public forum.  Gives you a little insight on what the standards, morals or ethics of individuals are today.  Polls have shown that 90% of the population would steal if they thought they could get away with it.  That is a pretty sad indicator of our society today.

If someone is going to go to the trouble of forging an Adventure Pass which may not be such a big deal, you can bet they are involved in more serious criminal activity, perhaps forging things of much more value.  They may be able to fool the Rangers with their forged passes but it is just a matter of time before they'll get caught for something much more serious.

Personally I find it hard to believe that any of the 1,000s of passes I have examined were forged.  I can't believe anyone would go to such trouble.  It'd be easier just to take your chances and hope you don't receive an NNC.

To be honest, I have been talked out of writting an NNC several times.  You'd be surprised by some of the stories.  I don't HAVE to write it.  I've had an older gentleman insist that he had an Annual Adventure Pass in the other car.  I believed him and didn't write it.  I could still have written him an NNC.  There is a space on the form where you can write the number of your Annual Pass and just mail it in, thus avoiding the $5.00.  He wasn't really upset, other than at himself for forgetting to transfer it in to his current vehicle.  But I'm not out there to ruin someone's day over $5.00.  I've also had a elderly women with a cane and a Handicap placard parking on Highway 2.  She had brought her grand daughter to ski but there were no available handicap spaces left at Mountain High and as happens on busy weekends the parking lots were both full.  I could have written an NNC, but I didn't feel like it and I wished her well as she began her long walk up to Mountain High West.

As I've stated, nearly everyone who receives an NNC thanks us.  I believe many people really do not know about the program.  It also impresses them when I tell them that I too, have to have an Adventure Pass when I'm not driving around in the Government Rig and stop to recreate in the forest.  I've been buying an Annual Pass for years.

[clint]

Name calling? What name calling?
If I was name calling in error, I'm sure many people
would have rushed to defend you.


Hello.....anybody out there?


And nice post Robert, very eloquent

[angiepoo]

I think they need to re-name the "Adventure Pass" something else.  Something like...

"Park Wherever You Want To Pass"
"Dirty Diaper Dump Card"
"Iced Lake Adventure Pass"
"Astro Van Adventutre Pass"
"You Can't Ticket Me Pass"
"Snow Thieve Pass"
"How To Cook On The Highway Pass"
"We'll Play In Your Yard Pass"

Any other suggestions out there..... 

A "Catch me if you can" pass.
A "Slide down the hill into the highway" pass.

"Leave our broken sleds" pass.
"Dump our trash for free" pass.

[angelwolf326]

I took my grandsons up to play in the snow just before you get to Grassy Hollow and I bought a yearly pass for the first time.  I often go out in the forest taking pictures and walking my dog, so I figured buying a yearly one was the best way to go..

I don't mind paying $30 and hope the funds go to help our forest.  I used to feel that as I lived here I should not have to get one, but $30 is not going to break me.

Most of the cars in the area where I parked had passes...  

It was a fun day and a bunch of nice people were having a great time with their kids and there was no trash around that I could see.

Not all snow players are bad people, just some of them, the ones that don't respect the forest and private propery....



Great post Robert!

[K9luvr]

I don't mind paying $30 and hope the funds go to help our forest.  I used to feel that as I lived here I should not have to get one, but $30 is not going to break me.

Glad to see you had a great time.  85% of the AP monies stay on the forest closest to where it was purchased.  And as for the argument of "I live here so I should not have to pay"...Where does the agency draw the line--especially without being arbitrary and capricious?  I know that you no longer feel that way, I am just answering the general argument.  Gee, can I use the same argument?  "I live next to the grocery store, therefore I shouldn't have to pay for my milk."  It is a recreation amenity fee and anyone using the forest for recreation in the fee areas is required to pay.  And for a little secret--most of the people in the agency HATE the fact that they are required to charge for people to use public land.  Unfortunately, that is the way the 1994 Congress set things up.  Managing these programs are a pain in the tukas, but without them, things would be even worse than they are now.  The budgets in 2008 in recreation are grim, and are getting worse in the proposed 2009 budget by the President.  Without the AP, you wouldn't even have the staff that oversee the volunteer programs in the Big Pines area.  So, no staff, no volunteers--can you imagine what an even worse mess that would be?!?!

[angelwolf326]

Thanks for the background on that K9....

[BPSquirrel]

I suspect I just hit a nerve since nobody had ever thought how easily the entire Adventure Pass policy could be circumvented while putting thousands of dollars in their pockets.  Why don't you quit beating me up and figure out how you could verify authenticity of an Adventure Pass you can't touch because it's hanging on a mirror inside a locked car.  

If you were going to forge Adventure Passes your first task would be acquiring a real Adventure Pass so that you match the paper, probably at the local office supply store 

I knew a few of you would freak out when I mentioned the plausibility of it all.  Why don't you quit beating me up and start looking a little closer at those Adventure Passes, you may be surprised what you find.  

#1- You don't have to touch it if you work with them every day you know exactly what it looks like and how one that is scratched or punched looks like.

#2- Being an avid Scrapbooker/crafter, I have been to some pretty swanky paper stores and stationary stores too, You will NOT find the same kind of paper in a typlical store, that are used to make the Adventure Pass, between the gloss and the sticker that is on the Annual, and the scratch off material (Like on a scratcher Lotto ticket) you would have to have alot of money to put out to forge one. and you would do that for 5 bucks??

My question to you, since you are a skier I assume that you use Mtn High, so do you get to the parking lot early or are you one of those that are illegally parked on the street that needs to be ticketed by the FS and CHP and towed to the Caltrans yard?
 Don't complain about the situation, be part of the Solution....Volunteer!!!

[Rumpled]

I think they need to re-name the "Adventure Pass" something else.  Something like...

"Park Wherever You Want To Pass"
"Dirty Diaper Dump Card"
"Iced Lake Adventure Pass"
"Astro Van Adventutre Pass"
"You Can't Ticket Me Pass"
"Snow Thieve Pass"
"How To Cook On The Highway Pass"
"We'll Play In Your Yard Pass"

Any other suggestions out there..... 

How about
"Charging You Fees to Enforce Fees Pass"

I've previously heard figures of 50-80% of the fees collected going to enforcement of the passes.  Looking at these links, I can't figure out what the percentage is.

The pie chart says 19% plus 5% regional investment fund.  Isn't that the 5% going upstairs to overall USFS and/or general fed budget?

Also, of the 68% of the on the ground stuff, some of that is certainly enforcement/pass related.

Note in the 2006 ANF photologs putting up signs to tell one of the fee area.  If there was no fee, no need for more signs in the forest.

Wouldn't those like RobertW much rather being doing other things and having good contact with forest visitors than running around all the time passing out NNC's?

All that being said, I have 1/2 of two passes.  That's right, not one; me and a buddy went in on two annual passes to knock it down to $17.50 each.

I think this whole AP boondoogle is because the gubmnt won't fund USFS like it should. 

[RobertW]

Wouldn't those like RobertW much rather being doing other things and having good contact with forest visitors than running around all the time passing out NNC's?

Believe it or not much of our contact with the visitors has nothing to do with Adventure Passes.  On some weekends we don't even bother with Adventure Pass Violations as there are much more important things to do like keeping people from falling through the ice at Jackson Lake as we did last weekend, putting up all new signs around the lake about the dangers of the thin ice (we replaced 9 signs, they now say KEEP OFF!), dealing with fire regulation violations, checking the watertanks that provide water to Mt. High and the campgrounds, cleaning the restrooms and restocking them with toilet paper (we've had to close the "flushers" across from the Big Pines station as snowmelt and freezing ice has clogged up or frozen the septic tank. The snow pack will have to be removed or we wait until it thaws before we can get to the septic tank and pump it out.  In the Appletree campground, snowmelt had filled in and filled up the vaults.  Ice freezing underneath the vaults have lifted and shifted them.  Inside the hole It froze so that it is one big poopsicle.  I know, too much information.  It may be spring before we can get the restrooms open.), removing graffiti, helping with snowplay injuries or vehicles over the side after they slipped off the road because of the ice.  Many times we'll just stop to talk to the public and advise them of the Adventure Pass program but leave our NNC books in the rig.  It is NOT all about writing NNC for Adventure Pass violations.

As we stop at each turnout, the writing of NNCs is a real ice breaker.  We spend  a lot of time talking with the snowplayers, passing out Smokey Bear Comic and activity books to the kids, etc.  I love the interaction with the public.  We actually spend much more time at a turnout just talking with the public than writing NNCs.  Believe it or not, even though we may write an NNC for an Adventure Pass violation, in almost every case, I've been thanked for doing so. 

Writing NNCs is just a small part of our job.  It's the public interaction, answering questions about the best sledding spots, trails or animal life in the area that I like. I've spent my whole life growning up in this area (my family has had property in Wrightwood since 1933) and I know this part of the Angeles National Forest like the back of my hand.  I love being able to talk to people about the area and answering their questions. 

Many of these visitors have never been up in the area and are overwhelmed by the beauty and have a lot of questions.  We are still the good guys and people love the fact that there are "Rangers" in the area looking out for them.  ALL of our contact with the Forest Vistors is "good" whether we are writing NNCs or not.


 

[Breezymtns]

RobertW....  I continue to respect & admire you from afar

... Not to mention miss all of ya lots too!