Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery

[GretchenLosi]

The Daily Press is wondering if signs have been posted at the lake warning people to stay off the ice in the past. If anyone has information or would like to comment on the record about the tragic death of the man who lost his life saving children from the ice, please contact the Daily Press at 951-6233.

[RobertW]

Unfortunately ALL USFS personnel in the area were off today and this was the one day the Volunteers weren't out there patrolling. 

Of the hundreds of parked cars I passed between Big Pines and Mile High I only counted 6 displaying Adventure passes.  The Forest Service wanted the Adventure Passes they should have been out making sure folks were purchasing the passes on one of the biggest days of the year for people visiting the forest.  Although I'm not sure where they'd purchase the passes.. perhaps the mini mart?

When we are out writing NNCs for Adventure Pass Violations we instruct the public that they can be obtained in town or at the VIS centers.  Since Big Pines was closed Sun - Tues we told them that then can either drive into town or let us go ahead and write the NNC (Notice of Non Compliance).  With the NNC in hand they can go ahead and play for the day and just mail in their $5.00 when they get home.  In every case they thanked me.

Nobody in the USFS was patrolling the area on Christmas Day.  Even Volunteers need a day off.  But even so, hundreds of NNC were written over the past two weekends.

Things will be different over New Years as several of us have taken the time off to spend all week out there patrolling.

[ChattyCathy]

I remember as a kid living in Buffalo, NY (Grand Island, actually) the frozen rivers/lake surrounding Niagara Falls.  The ice was at least six feet thick, and I wouldn't have waked on that!  So are these people just STUPID who are walking on this ice?  I just don't understand what they could be thinking.  

[ChattyCathy]

I hope someone with knowledge of this will call the provided number and this post doesn't get lost in the thread.  I would call - but I have no firsthand knowledge since I've never stopped at the lake.

The Daily Press is wondering if signs have been posted at the lake warning people to stay off the ice in the past. If anyone has information or would like to comment on the record about the tragic death of the man who lost his life saving children from the ice, please contact the Daily Press at 951-6233.

[SkierBob]

Someone should manage the volunteers so they are in the forest on the days they are most needed.  Xmas day is one of those days.  However, Frankly I don't think we can save everyone.  Perhaps what we really need is more thin ice opportunities for stupid people to take themselves out of the gene pool.  

I'm all for installing more signs (in English) and allowing nature take it's course.  

[Bob C]

The Daily Press is wondering if signs have been posted at the lake warning people to stay off the ice in the past. If anyone has information or would like to comment on the record about the tragic death of the man who lost his life saving children from the ice, please contact the Daily Press at 951-6233.

Like this?



From this older topic: http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,7977.0.html

Gretchen, it might be fun for you to grab one of your photographers and go there some day, to watch the people ignore signs, and play on (obviously) thin ice

[RobertW]

The Daily Press is wondering if signs have been posted at the lake warning people to stay off the ice in the past. If anyone has information or would like to comment on the record about the tragic death of the man who lost his life saving children from the ice, please contact the Daily Press at 951-6233.

Signs are posted every year.  It doesn't help.  Signs are up now, and it didn't help.  

The need for an Adventure Pass is posted all over the Forest and in every campground, yet most people we talk to have no idea what we're talking about when we confront them on the lack of not having an Adventure Pass.

PEOPLE DON'T READ SIGNS.

Unfortunately, if they see one person on the ice they figure it is safe for them to go out on it as well.

[GretchenLosi]

HI BOB,

Our photographer is there now. We're trying to determine how much of a problem this is at the lake. Thanks somuch for your reply.

[Wrightwood]

Gretchen did someone die yesterday in Jackson Lake?

[Bob C]

HI BOB,

Our photographer is there now. We're trying to determine how much of a problem this is at the lake. Thanks so much for your reply.

Excellent.. There's many problems this time of year:

(1) People on thin ice (literally speaking)
(2) People with their little low-rider Honda Civics, that end up in a guardrail, or on their roof because they have no traction on ice/snow (driven by people who probably have never driven on the snow/ice before)
(3) People who stop right in the middle of the road (blocking it for everyone, and creating a safety hazard) to put on their chains, instead of pulling over.

I'll bet there's plenty of material for numerous stories here for you. Anyone else want to add to the list?

[Bob C]

Gretchen did someone die yesterday in Jackson Lake?

I knew about the LA guy "Airlifted" out, but apparently, someone did die, according to the Daily Press: http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/claridad_4228___article.html/coroner_ice.html

[Wrightwood]

[GretchenLosi]

ALL VALID ISSUES. We welcome anyone that wants to comment on the record to call the Daily Press at 951-6233. The story has been posted to vvdailypress.com and updates will contiue to be posted throughout the day.

Thank you.

[Jilly]

4.  Having 200+ people sledding on your property despite numerous signs, and despite our asking them to leave.  We know that we are at risk for a lawsuit if someone is injured sledding, and we are also very concerned about someone becoming violent with us when we ask them to leave.  We consciously remain very polite but firm, but we are constantly harassed with bad language and namecalling.  Snow days are a nightmare for us--we literally cannot leave our property on Highway 2, and we don't consider it safe to leave because of the trespassing.  Our property is used as an outhouse for "visitors" and we have people walking up and looking into our windows.  We have called the police on numerous occasions, but never have a response.  We are literally captives in our home on those days.  Fortunately there has never been violence, nor lawsuits against us but we are worried for that day.  When we had a fence, they tore it down.  They also pretend not to speak English (nearly all are spanish-speakers), and they leave a multitude of garbage and used toilet paper all over our property (we have 8 acres right on the main highway).  What do you think about that, Daily News?  Immigrant rights groups?  This happens every year, at least 3-10 times--depending on the amount of snow, and the day it falls, and I know we are far from alone.

[GretchenLosi]

Again, in order for your story to be heard, you must call us at 951-6233. We're happy to bring issues to the surface but need you to be the one to go on the record and present them to our readers.

[Tomas]

I walk my dog around the lake several times a week and have noticed the posted signs in english and spanish. The signs also have a universal symbol that looks like broken ice with a red slash through it.

It's rediculous that people ignore the signs and wal on the ice... Some of it is just ignorance and lak of education, like walking on snow on top of ice, not knowing that snow on top of ice actually makes it ice weaker. Most of it is just stupitiy like people that walk and stand near obvious weak spot like cracks that go across the entire lake and are seeping water.

It's most unfortunate that the man that died was saving an irresponsible parent's children. It's apalling to think that people may be taking signs down. This leaves no warning for people that actually care enough about themselves and their families to read signs.

[SkierBob]

4.  Having 200+ people sledding on your property despite numerous signs, and despite our asking them to leave.  We know that we are at risk for a lawsuit if someone is injured sledding, and we are also very concerned about someone becoming violent with us when we ask them to leave.  We consciously remain very polite but firm, but we are constantly harassed with bad language and namecalling.  Snow days are a nightmare for us--we literally cannot leave our property on Highway 2, and we don't consider it safe to leave because of the trespassing.  Our property is used as an outhouse for "visitors" and we have people walking up and looking into our windows.  We have called the police on numerous occasions, but never have a response.  We are literally captives in our home on those days.  Fortunately there has never been violence, nor lawsuits against us but we are worried for that day.  When we had a fence, they tore it down.  They also pretend not to speak English (nearly all are spanish-speakers), and they leave a multitude of garbage and used toilet paper all over our property (we have 8 acres right on the main highway).  What do you think about that, Daily News?  Immigrant rights groups?  This happens every year, at least 3-10 times--depending on the amount of snow, and the day it falls, and I know we are far from alone.

A fence didn't keep them out of the U.S. I highly doubt a fence would keep them off your properity.  You're dealing with it better then I would,  I'm pretty sure I'd push the issue to the point  law enforcement had no choice but to respond. I'd probably hand out maps in Spanish giving directions to Jackson Lake.  

If anyone wants to be mis quoted or quoted out of context call the daily press at 951-6233. If you just want your story to be heard you can always just keep posting in the forum. 

[kew]

Gretchen:
If you will read this forum thread, you will get a good feel for what snow days are like in Wrightwood.
Ken
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,1821.0.html

[lagomorphmom]

Someone should manage the volunteers so they are in the forest on the days they are most needed.  Xmas day is one of those days.

It's always been my philosophy not to complain about something someone does that I can't or won't do, in particular when they volunteer their valuable personal time away from their families or other things that they might rather be doing and I'm sitting in the comfort of my own home. Maybe you should do the same.

If you sincerely want to get traction on this issue, instead of complaining about volunteers who are already giving of themselves and their time for the community and our local forest, maybe you could address these issues with you local congress people who allocate USFS funding.

[Tomas]

A fence didn't keep them out of the U.S. I highly doubt a fence would keep them off your properity. 

That's just a stupid comment. There are plenty of Caucasian, Asian, and Black people that have ignored my fence. Besides there is no "fence" on the boarder and it won't keep them out. Especially not while people keep exploiting day laborers for cheap work. 

I'd probably hand out maps in Spanish giving directions to Jackson Lake. 

Giving directions to a public place is a good idea that works. Some people do give attitude but it's just nonsense and they'll move on because they don't want to be harassed.