Author Topic: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery  (Read 200738 times)

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Offline Wrightwood

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Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« on: Dec 25, 07, 03:51:14 PM »
LA County Air 5 was dispatched along with SB County Fire & LA County Fire for victims into the water through the ice.

At least 1 body was recovered in the incident.
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Offline SkierBob

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #1 on: Dec 25, 07, 04:26:43 PM »
We drove by Jackson Lake a little after noon today and couldn't believe all the people out on the ice.   I took notice and did not see any "Danger thin ice" signs.  I'm not surprised some fell thru the ice.   

Offline Elk

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #2 on: Dec 25, 07, 05:09:34 PM »
I spoke with a Sheriff Deputy at Jackson Lake at about 4:30pm. He said they had pulled one guy out and airlifted him to a hospital and were still working on him at that time.

The deputy also told me that he believed the victim who was pulled out was actually a person who had gone in to save another victim who was rescued by those who tried to help.

I was at the lake before the actual fire dept. rescuers got there and it was complete chaos. Cars were all over the road to the point it was impassible.   Every holiday weekend it is a complete zoo at Jackson Lake. Last year on one of the holidays I witnessed at least 300 people on the ice. On that occasion I went home and called 911 and the Sheriff came up and cleared the lake.

As for signs... the USFS put up signs after another person had fallen through the ice. As I recall they installed several signs along the road side and on the parking lot area warning of thin ice in both english and spanish. When I looked for the signs today I did not see any. They were probably all vandalized or stolen.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #3 on: Dec 25, 07, 06:32:24 PM »
Thanks Elk but we did hear a radio dispatch for the Coroner. I hope that's wrong.

We also heard that others had gone in to rescue the 1st victim.

Offline K9luvr

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #4 on: Dec 25, 07, 06:32:42 PM »
IAs for signs... the USFS put up signs after another person had fallen through the ice. As I recall they installed several signs along the road side and on the parking lot area warning of thin ice in both english and spanish. When I looked for the signs today I did not see any. They were probably all vandalized or stolen.

This happens all the time.  People think if they pull the signs down, then they don't have to follow the rules.  "Sign, what sign?  I didn't see it..."  I've had mountain bikers and atver's tear down wilderness boundary signs, sledders tear down 4' by 8' signs in bold red (both english and spanish) saying "NO SLEDDING", we even had an interpretive sign torn out of a rock wall (they must have used a vehicle, I don't see how it could have been done by hand).  It gets REALLY old having to replace signs over and over again.  

And what ever happened to (not so) common sense?  Who would go out on thin ice?  

Offline RobertW

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #5 on: Dec 25, 07, 06:35:26 PM »
During our patrols on Saturday, Sunday and Monday people were walking on the ice.  On Sunday a person fell through but was able to get themselves out.

Unfortunately, we can not tell a person that they have to get off the ice.  The Forest Service can be sued if someone slips and falls while trying to comply with us giving such orders. It is forest land and they walk on thin ice if they want to.  That was drilled into us when we were going through our USFS training class.  It was reemphasized to me while patrolling with REC-34 and we encountered the situation on Saturday. 

We can only warn them about the dangers and scare them by telling them of the number of those who have fallen through the ice so far this year and that rescue is a long way out.  That usually works.

Any removal of individuals from the ice by Sheriff Deputies would only be due to a working incident and the public causing interference.

When patrolling and pulling up in a USFS rig, most people will heed our warnings. Once we pull away, they get back on the ice.  Even with the USFS Volunteers and the paid USFS personnel making Jackson a regular stop, we can't be there all the time.  I'm sure there will be plenty of more incidents.

The USFS did install new signage about the dangers of thin ice in both English and Spanish.  Unfortunately, as of last Saturday, it appears that the only one left is on the beach side of the lake.  The signs don't say you can't walk on the ice, they only warn of the danger.



Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #6 on: Dec 25, 07, 06:49:09 PM »
RobertW it's my understanding that the final waring sign was gone late yesterday afternoon.

Offline RobertW

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #7 on: Dec 25, 07, 07:04:47 PM »
RobertW it's my understanding that the final waring sign was gone late yesterday afternoon.

I find it funny that people would even need signs to tell them that walking on thin ice is very dangerous.  You can look at the ice and see that it isn't thick enough to support your weight.  As k9lvr mentioned, what ever happened to "common sense"?

But serving as a Volunteer over this past year I've come to realize that most of the public is not aware of the dangers the forest presents.  They tend to think of it more like "Disneyland" where everything is controlled and nothing can go wrong.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #8 on: Dec 25, 07, 08:18:57 PM »
I had a ham radio call (from a forum member) that predicted that we would have an ice rescue yesterday. He was up walking his dog at Jackson Lake and couldn't believe that 20 people would be out on the melting ice. He was off by one day.

Common sense does not enter into the picture by anyone who wanders out on thin ice, in relatively warm weather and in the Los Angeles basin.

It's a shame that (at least) one person would no longer be sharing Christmas night with loved ones.

Offline RobertW

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #9 on: Dec 25, 07, 09:24:51 PM »
Unfortunately ALL USFS personnel in the area were off today and this was the one day the Volunteers weren't out there patrolling.  Sadly we have one Volunteer beating himself up over this because he feels he may have been able to prevent it if, after three straight days of patrolling, he hadn't taken this one day off to spend with his wife and get some things done around the cabin.

People have to take responsibility for their actions.  The Forest Service isn't always going to be there to prevent people from doing harm to themselves in the forest.

It is truly sad and my heart goes out to the families.  I'm just afraid this won't be the last time this happens this winter.

Offline RobertW

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #10 on: Dec 26, 07, 08:12:54 AM »
The Los Angeles Times:

LOS ANGELES COUNTY
Man who fell into lake is hospitalized


A man who fell through thin ice in an area of the Angeles National Forest near Palmdale was in critical condition at a local hospital Tuesday night, sheriff's officials said.

A special emergency unit of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department was called to Jackson Lake about 3 p.m., after three people had fallen into the icy waters while tubing, said Sgt. Josie Woolum, a sheriff's spokeswoman.

Two of the people were rescued by bystanders before the unit arrived, and the third man was rescued by sheriff's divers who broke through the ice to search for him.

He was taken to Desert Valley Hospital in Victorville, she said.

Vivian Lin, 27, of San Gabriel was driving through the forest with her family when they stopped by the frozen lake to take photos and noticed the rescue effort.

"Somebody on the other side of the river tied a rope to themselves and jumped in and tried to find [the man], but couldn't," Lin said.

Woolum said people should always exercise caution in thin-ice situations.

"A lot of people who aren't familiar with certain areas are not as readily prepared for undercurrents or the freezing temperatures," she said.

"They don't have knowledge of how thick or sturdy the ice is."


Offline Elk

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #11 on: Dec 26, 07, 08:39:48 AM »
RobertW it's my understanding that the final waring sign was gone late yesterday afternoon.

When I went by this morning I stopped to look for the warning signs. I saw at least 2 on the road side of the lake and 2 more along the parking area.

While small they do warn of thin ice in both spanish and english

My concern is that someone else is going to drive by today and see the all of the sleds, innertubes and saucers left out on the ice an try to go out and retrieve them. This will be a costly mistake for anyone so foolish.


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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #12 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:11:34 AM »
Unfortunately ALL USFS personnel in the area were off today and this was the one day the Volunteers weren't out there patrolling.  Sadly we have one Volunteer beating himself up over this because he feels he may have been able to prevent it if, after three straight days of patrolling, he hadn't taken this one day off to spend with his wife and get some things done around the cabin.

People have to take responsibility for their actions.  The Forest Service isn't always going to be there to prevent people from doing harm to themselves in the forest.

It is truly sad and my heart goes out to the families.  I'm just afraid this won't be the last time this happens this winter.


Nope...it's been an ongoing problem since the early seventies and before.  My personal best was six through the ice at one time and zero ice rescue gear and Sheriff's Air Five was off for the day.  What's amazing at that time was after our six hypothermia patients were transported to the hospital, another fifty folks (with their kids) were back on the ice.  Jeff Bradford and I just drove back to quarters with a sense of wonder and amazement at people's thinking processes. 

Even if a patrol had been sitting in the parking lot, there is no stopping these folks.... even if you did speak the language they will go out on the ice.  Like trying to herd cats.

Offline SkierBob

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #13 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:37:02 AM »
Unfortunately ALL USFS personnel in the area were off today and this was the one day the Volunteers weren't out there patrolling. 

Of the hundreds of parked cars I passed between Big Pines and Mile High I only counted 6 displaying Adventure passes.  The Forest Service wanted the Adventure Passes they should have been out making sure folks were purchasing the passes on one of the biggest days of the year for people visiting the forest.  Although I'm not sure where they'd purchase the passes.. perhaps the mini mart?



love_walnuts

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #14 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:38:36 AM »
Is there any way to melt the ice quickly? It isn't thick, but I know we don't want to add salt as it would harm the fish and environment.

Offline Bob C

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #15 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:43:18 AM »

Offline Leftfield

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #16 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:51:47 AM »
What Ive seen is people at first check out the ice close to shore then will venture further and further out thinking all is well.  Also people will flock together instead of spreading themselves out. 

One time a dog went through the ice and the owner went running out after it.  It was a head-shaker that the two of them didnt go in where the owner pulled out the dog. 

Again, the fact that there were no paid rangers around only shows what the current administration thinks about all of our national parks and their visitors.  I truly think they would rather have some big corporation like Disney or Marriott lease out and run the parks. 

Offline SkierBob

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #17 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:54:37 AM »
Is there any way to melt the ice quickly? It isn't thick, but I know we don't want to add salt as it would harm the fish and environment.

circulate the water? Build a fence?  Drain the lake?  Or put up more signs and save yourself by staying off the ice?

Offline SkierBob

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #18 on: Dec 26, 07, 10:56:18 AM »
Although I'm not sure where they'd purchase the passes.. perhaps the mini mart?

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/ap/vendors.php?city2=Wrightwood&submit=Submit

My point was probably not all were open xmas day. It would be wise to hand out information regarding the dangers of thin ice to anyone purchasing an Adventure pass.  The info alone would be worth $5..   

Hillbillies

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Re: Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery
« Reply #19 on: Dec 26, 07, 11:00:33 AM »
Let's be proactive here.  How about during the winter months when a family purchases the "Forest Adventure Pass" they get twelve free orange life vest rentals!