Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery

[Ishy]

I think the signs could help more. I suggest a detailed warning sign in the main parking area. I think the generic signs are ignored because of being desensitized to warnings. If they see it at all, they may just think USFS is covering its own a**, but it's not that dangerous.  Although many will ignore a more detailed sign, those who read it will be informed and will possibly be empowered to "patrol" while they are at the lake.


Kudos to USFS staff & volunteers for all that you do!

[Jilly]

A fence didn't keep them out of the U.S. I highly doubt a fence would keep them off your properity. 

Like I said, the majority of them are Spanish speaking.  Also, we do tell them that they can sled further up the road.  Are you justifying in some way that it is okay to trespass onto our property past the signs and to treat us rudely when we ask them to leave.  We are nice to these people--most leave without being asked twice.  Rarely does anyone apologize, and I guarantee that every single one of them knows they are trespassing.  There is no excuse for their behavior.  Perhaps we can direct them to your house Tomas?

That's just a stupid comment. There are plenty of Caucasian, Asian, and Black people that have ignored my fence. Besides there is no "fence" on the boarder and it won't keep them out. Especially not while people keep exploiting day laborers for cheap work. 

I'd probably hand out maps in Spanish giving directions to Jackson Lake. 

Giving directions to a public place is a good idea that works. Some people do give attitude but it's just nonsense and they'll move on because they don't want to be harassed.

[Tomas]

Mountain Mom, you missed my point. My response to that quote was directed to skier bob's comment about the boarder. Not your issues with trespassers. They trespass at my house too, some are rude, but like you said most leave without being asked a second time. It's something I've just learned to deal with living right off of one of our main highways. Though I know I have not lived here very long.

My point is that many people are just rude and inconsiderate, the language they speak or ethnic background has nothing to do with the amount of respect they chose to give us. I've had confrontations with many english speaking snowplayers. I could be wrong and maybe they are latino and they are just light complected and learned enlgish profanities and insults. 

[love_walnuts]

I think the signs could help more. I suggest a detailed warning sign in the main parking area. I think the generic signs are ignored because of being desensitized to warnings. If they see it at all, they may just think USFS is covering its own a**, but it's not that dangerous.  Although many will ignore a more detailed sign, those who read it will be informed and will possibly be empowered to "patrol" while they are at the lake.


Kudos to USFS staff & volunteers for all that you do!

I second those kudos.  What may work is a memorial (like those along the roadside) honoring the fallen hero and expaining that he died trying to rescue 2 children. Lots of flowers and a cross and perhaps a large sign explaining what happened.

[ChattyCathy]

What a total tragedy for this man's five children, to have their daddy die on Christmas day -- and most likely with them watching.  Where were the parents of the children who fell through the ice?  I agree that these parents should be charged with child endangerment.  And why weren't they the ones to rescue their own children?   Were they so far away that they couldn't get there in time?  Those children should be taken away from them if that's the case.  JMO

[Wrightwood]

Everyone should take a look at this Discovery Channel video so you'll be better prepared:

http://www.exn.ca/video/?Video=exn20020325-icewater.asx

[Wrightwood]

Jackson Lake appears to be so inviting. Check these two topics:

http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,7977.0.html

http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,3001.0.html

[Wrightwood]

Don't forget to check the date of the 1st posting:

http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php/topic,7977.0.html

[ChattyCathy]

This is extremely informative! 

Everyone should take a look at this Discovery Channel video so you'll be better prepared:

http://www.exn.ca/video/?Video=exn20020325-icewater.asx

[superMom]

Wrightwood,
Thanks for the Discovery Channel video.  Now at least if I came upon that situation at Jackson, or any other lake I might at least have an idea of what to do, and what not to do. 

[Nolena]

[K9luvr]

What may work is a memorial (like those along the roadside) honoring the fallen hero and expaining that he died trying to rescue 2 children. Lots of flowers and a cross and perhaps a large sign explaining what happened.

For the most part, memorials are prohibited on NFS land.  I can't quote you chapter and verse, but the issue of memorials on forest land has come up before.  It is very complicated....  I know that a person has to be dead for at least five years to have a building named after them. 

[love_walnuts]

What may work is a memorial (like those along the roadside) honoring the fallen hero and explaining that he died trying to rescue 2 children. Lots of flowers and a cross and perhaps a large sign explaining what happened.

For the most part, memorials are prohibited on NFS land.  I can't quote you chapter and verse, but the issue of memorials on forest land has come up before.  It is very complicated....  I know that a person has to be dead for at least five years to have a building named after them. 

I am not talking of a formal memorial. I am talking of the makeshift memorials like I see all the time driving on the road from here to Palmdale or from here to Cucamonga. The type the family usually put on the side of the road with a cross, flowers, personal items and a plaque. This is something that has become more prevalent over the past 10 years, as I think it is something done more in the Latin American countries than here.
In the past, I have looked at these roadside memorials as nuisances, but this would be a good place for one, as it would strike right at the heart of what is needed.

[Bob C]

I am not talking of a formal memorial. I am talking of the makeshift memorials like I see all the time driving on the road from here to Palmdale or from here to Cucamonga.

With all due respect, those are just another form of littering, in my opinion. Yes, you'll see them, but in the areas you mentioned, Caltrans or the County Road department (whoever has jurisdiction) does remove them, when they "get around to it".

[RobertW]

For the most part, memorials are prohibited on NFS land.  I can't quote you chapter and verse, but the issue of memorials on forest land has come up before.  It is very complicated....  I know that a person has to be dead for at least five years to have a building named after them. 

I am not talking of a formal memorial. I am talking of the makeshift memorials like I see all the time driving on the road from here to Palmdale or from here to Cucamonga. The type the family usually put on the side of the road with a cross, flowers, personal items and a plaque. This is something that has become more prevalent over the past 10 years, as I think it is something done more in the Latin American countries than here.
In the past, I have looked at these roadside memorials as nuisances, but this would be a good place for one, as it would strike right at the heart of what is needed.

I believe that type of memorial is also included in what k9lvr was talking about.  I have a feeling we'd be required to remove the flowers, cross, etc. if we came upon it on our patrols.  No matter how sincere the intent they are considered eyesores by many. 

[rdnckgrl78]

Maybe the parents (or whoever was in charge of them while visiting Jackson Lake) of the children Claridad went into rescue should be charged with his death.

[smartpatrol]

Maybe the parents (or whoever was in charge of them while visiting Jackson Lake) of the children Claridad went into rescue should be charged with his death.

If they can't do that, they should bring a wrongful death suit against the parents. 

[Wisher]

Common now... let's be fair.

I'm sure those parents were horrified to see their children fall into the ice and I'm more then sure that they feel quite guilty enough about the man dying as a result of saving their children.  They will have to live with that for their entire lives.

A lot of people in this world have NO CLUE about the dangers of snow/ice.  I now reside in Florida (81 degrees today...I LOVE it!) and anyone who's lived here since a young age have no clue what snow/ice is really like.  I could imagine any one of these people vacationing in Wrightwood and running out onto the iced over Jackson Lake.  That would probably be the thrill of a lifetime to them. 

Signs?  Phooey.... I jumped out of a plane, KNOWING the danger (and signing TONS of documents stating that fact).  Did it stop me?  No way! 

All I'm trying to say is ....  this is life.  We ALL die.  That is one of the only things in life you will always be 100% sure of.   Why sit here and take a "let's sue" attitude when, in the end, I think everyone involved has surely "learned their lesson" already when it comes to that lake.  Do you honestly think that they will be doing it again?

I do agree with cutting out the article and showing it to those who get on the frozen lake.  I'm sure most of them don't realize the true honest dangers of walking on "thin ice".  Maybe someone should put up a board at the lake with all the names of people who have died from falling through the ice there.  That may be a wake-up call to some.........

[snowave]

For the most part, memorials are prohibited on NFS land.  I can't quote you chapter and verse, but the issue of memorials on forest land has come up before.  It is very complicated....  I know that a person has to be dead for at least five years to have a building named after them. 

I am not talking of a formal memorial. I am talking of the makeshift memorials like I see all the time driving on the road from here to Palmdale or from here to Cucamonga. The type the family usually put on the side of the road with a cross, flowers, personal items and a plaque. This is something that has become more prevalent over the past 10 years, as I think it is something done more in the Latin American countries than here.
In the past, I have looked at these roadside memorials as nuisances, but this would be a good place for one, as it would strike right at the heart of what is needed.

I believe that type of memorial is also included in what k9lvr was talking about.  I have a feeling we'd be required to remove the flowers, cross, etc. if we came upon it on our patrols.  No matter how sincere the intent they are considered eyesores by many. 

actually, you're not required to remove them at all.. I would suggest letting others deal with that part of it to avoid a conflict of interest... even though your intentions are good.

btw, good point wisher.. like Mammoth's Hot Creek site.. "so and so many people have dies here in teh last 20+ years"...extreme danger..

I also know that Big Bear has extensive singage and a CFR for a $500 fine for going onto lake ice. Would be interesting to see if that woudl work, but trying to get a CFR for that here might be a tall order.

[james6000]

abc7 just did a live feed by the post office