Author Topic: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017  (Read 84143 times)

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Offline Cheapskate

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #60 on: Aug 08, 17, 05:27:11 AM »
Guess it's gonna be a while before that kumbaya One Town thing happens...

Offline tcaarabians

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #61 on: Aug 08, 17, 06:16:12 PM »
Ok Cheapskate, I did laugh at that one.  Short of listening to the audio of last night's meeting.. does anyone have a summary of what they decided?   cheryl o7o

Hovel Downs

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #62 on: Aug 09, 17, 01:47:10 AM »
Are there any streetlights in the LA county side of Wrightwood?
You are inside the boundary of the monument, just as you are inside the boundary of the Angeles National Forest.  Generally the Angeles NF is in LA County and San Bernardino National Forest is in San Bernardino County.  It really only pertains to fire response areas.  If your property is inside the Forest boundary, then you are in an FPA, Wrightwood is under County protection and SRA.  It doesn't matter a bit regarding the CSA.  The Monument is in LA County because the Forest lands it was created from are in LA county.

GirlFarmer

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #63 on: Aug 09, 17, 02:21:18 PM »
Since it's all about fairness, and the CSD's mandate is Solid Waste,  the Board should consider adding a Solid Waste fee of $3.51 to all WW San Bernardino County properties for recycling and green waste programs.

Hovel Downs

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #64 on: Aug 09, 17, 03:04:16 PM »
That is a different issue, this is about the dump card and fees

Offline Bob C

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #65 on: Aug 09, 17, 03:18:34 PM »
You are inside the boundary of the monument, just as you are inside the boundary of the Angeles National Forest.  Generally the Angeles NF is in LA County and San Bernardino National Forest is in San Bernardino County.  It really only pertains to fire response areas.  If your property is inside the Forest boundary, then you are in an FPA, Wrightwood is under County protection and SRA.  It doesn't matter a bit regarding the CSA.  The Monument is in LA County because the Forest lands it was created from are in LA county.

I have no idea what you just said, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong on several things. None of us are "inside the boundary" of any Forest. I own my land. Sure, the Forest is around us, but we are not part of it.

This map from the Forest Service, shows that the boundary of the National Monument goes to roughly the Mountain High area, and does NOT include any portion of the LA County side of Wrightwood. This is a pretty detailed map, so save it to your computer, and zoom in: https://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/sangabriel/san-gabriel-10-21-14.pdf

My question simply asked if there were any street lights in the LA county portion of Wrightwood. I ask, because part of my (SB County) tax dollars pays for the street lights in the SB County portion of Wrightwood. If there are streetlights in the LA County side of Wrightwood, that are part of the 23 or however many streetlights it was that are now under CSD control, I'm wondering if the CSD will need to pay the electric bill for those lights. If so, LA County better be reimbursing the CSD for that.


Offline lwt42

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #66 on: Aug 09, 17, 05:30:43 PM »
Since it's all about fairness, and the CSD's mandate is Solid Waste,  the Board should consider adding a Solid Waste fee of $3.51 to all WW San Bernardino County properties for recycling and green waste programs.
I agree, but we have to keep one thing in mind: the Community Services District is only responsible for things like park maintenance that the former San Bernardino County CSA-56 handled.  For example, the CSD is not responsible for law enforcement, that's still handled by the respective Sheriffs' offices.

I know those are extreme examples -- the exact areas that they have (and do not have) responsibility for are here on the forum.

If there is a fee imposed by and in L.A. County for a service that lies outside the CSD bailiwick, then the CSD cannot provide that service to S.B. county residents, and cannot impose a fee for something we don't get.

An earlier post suggested that this was not related to trash, but with how L.A. County deals with hazardous waste. 

Offline tcaarabians

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #67 on: Aug 09, 17, 06:08:33 PM »
These are all good questions. I'm sure the new G.M. and the Board of the WCSD will have answers for you soon.

By my reading, the $3.51 fee imposed on L.A. County residents of the WCSD is for recycling and hazardous waste in L.A. County. Those services are incorporated into the $80+ fee that SBD County residents pay and we get the dump card for use as well. I would think the $3.51 fee for L.A. residents would go away once the billing and transfer of funds to the WCSD are in place. Plus, L.A. County residents will be able to use the recycling and hazardous waste disposal facilities. Course, L.A. County residents will have to pay the $85+ fee. So, I can see why there is a gripe.

A couple of other points that should be considered are:  1) Where do L.A. County residents go now for dump disposal, recycling and hazardous waste disposal? Isn't the Phelan dump a lot closer? Or, are L.A. residents using the Phelan dump and paying a fee each time?
2) Is CR&R the franchise waste hauler for the L.A. County residents? Does the new district require a transfer of services? I believe there is a 'franchise fee' that CR&R pays to the PPHCSD. I'm not sure how that is handled administratively. There is a line item for it in the PPHCSD budget. Therefore, there should be one in the WCSD budget. Or, I'm wrong. I try to humble when that happens.

Girlfarmer:  You made a good suggestion. But, in this instance, I don't think the 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' concept works. The $3.51 for L.A. County residents should go away.

Me:  I would gladly pay a little extra for roadside recycling when my trash is picked up. I did have curbside recycling when I lived in L.A. and I loved it and that was the bin that was always full.  cheryl o7o


GirlFarmer

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #68 on: Aug 09, 17, 08:27:56 PM »
The very real question is where does it stop?  Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees.  No pie left for me, or whatever is left for me is now a mess.  Death by a thousand little cuts.  It's getting to the point of it's not worth it to earn it.  Taxes and fees should be to cover necessities, and nothing else.  Shame on the County of San Bernardino for initiating the dump fee with the excuse of cleaning up the desert in the first place.  The offenders should be punished, not everyone.  I would love to see some before and after numbers of the effectiveness.  It's all just an excuse to take someone's money without a justification for what it's spent on.Seems to be the current accepted practice in the State.  I don't worry too much.  In time, the pendulum swings just as hard the other way.  Just look at the national political picture.

Wes Zuber - WWCSD

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #69 on: Aug 09, 17, 08:30:24 PM »
Quote
By my reading, the $3.51 fee imposed on L.A. County residents of the WCSD is for recycling and hazardous waste in L.A. County. Those services are incorporated into the $80+ fee that SBD County residents pay and we get the dump card for use as well. I would think the $3.51 fee for L.A. residents would go away once the billing and transfer of funds to the WCSD are in place. Plus, L.A. County residents will be able to use the recycling and hazardous waste disposal facilities. Course, L.A. County residents will have to pay the $85+ fee. So, I can see why there is a gripe.

Not exactly but close.. the $3.51 is just a completely separate fee not related to solid waste that the CSD has power over. LA just has a completely separate fee associated with Hazardous household items. San Bernardino doesn't have that fee at all. Much in the same way that there is a Park Rec fee in LA that has to do with a regional park that was built and nothing to do with the general Parks and Rec fee.

Quote
Me:  I would gladly pay a little extra for roadside recycling when my trash is picked up. I did have curbside recycling when I lived in L.A. and I loved it and that was the bin that was always full.  cheryl o7o

Maybe I'm not understanding this.. doesn't CR&R already provide a recycling can? I know I have one.

Regards,

--Wes



Offline lwt42

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #70 on: Aug 09, 17, 08:44:07 PM »
The very real question is where does it stop?  Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees.  No pie left for me, or whatever is left for me is now a mess.  Death by a thousand little cuts.  It's getting to the point of it's not worth it to earn it.  Taxes and fees should be to cover necessities, and nothing else.  Shame on the County of San Bernardino for initiating the dump fee with the excuse of cleaning up the desert in the first place.  The offenders should be punished, not everyone.  I would love to see some before and after numbers of the effectiveness.  It's all just an excuse to take someone's money without a justification for what it's spent on.Seems to be the current accepted practice in the State.  I don't worry too much.  In time, the pendulum swings just as hard the other way.  Just look at the national political picture.
If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.

If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.

If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.

If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.

I think that list is complete.  Just those four topics.

There is a long list of things like road maintenance, flood control, fire and police services that we pay for through taxes to our respective counties that are not controlled by the CSD, but are on our respective tax bills (not necessarily property tax, either).

It seems that the one narrow issue here is the $85 I pay as a San Bernardino resident (and the dump card I get).  If I lived in L.A. County, I would not pay that fee, and I would not be able to take trash to a dump in San Bernardino County.

Expanding that to other fees for other purposes is outside the scope of the WWCSD charter.

Wes Zuber - WWCSD

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #71 on: Aug 09, 17, 08:45:18 PM »
Hi Girlfarmer,

Quote
The very real question is where does it stop?  Almost every day we hear of another finger poked in the pie....dump fees, global warming, car tax, forest fees.

I completely understand and have made the complaint myself over the years. But in this case the fees from the SB Dump cards are coming back to Wrightwood to be used directly in the town instead of just being absorbed by the largest County in the USA. It is true that it will be new for LA County Wrightwood residents. But that money does go to the CSD so you know how it is being spent.. As we get up and going with better online reporting you will know exactly how it is spent. Not so true for the rest our property tax I have to say..

I it is very exciting to not have to beg the County to properly maintain the community building or to fix something in a timely manner. I also like the idea that anyone in town can come to a meeting and make a difference with this money.. that people can be elected locally on the board and make their voices heard and have a real effect.

If you disagree with me or anyone on the board you have the ability to fire us. If I am doing a terrible job I deserve nothing less!

Regards,

--Wes





Offline tcaarabians

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #72 on: Aug 10, 17, 02:55:09 AM »
Wes... no here in Pinon Hills I do not receive a recycling can. I have two trash cans for household waste and pay $70+ for three months of weekly pickup. I also rent a bin from CR&R and pay $112+ a month for weekly pickup for that. I use it for the horses and yard cleanup debris.  cheryl o7o

Offline Cheapskate

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #73 on: Aug 11, 17, 02:17:01 AM »
Quote: "If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.

If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.

If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.

If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.

I think that list is complete.  Just those four topics."

Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things.  In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money.  Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay!  If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon.  The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.

Wes Zuber - WWCSD

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #74 on: Aug 11, 17, 01:02:32 PM »
Quote
Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things.  In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money.  Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay!  If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon.  The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.

The dump card fees or the 85.14 charged to each residential parcel went to the County and WW never saw it. WW Residents already paying this.
The CR&R Franchise fees  also went straight to the County and WW never saw it. WW Residents don't pay an extra fee (No government tax or fee) for this but it is built into everyone that is paying into CR&R.
The CSA-56 Money collected from parcels for general property tax wasn't wisely spent in my opinion.. they were late on a lot of bills for example.. they were always behind.
The CSD assessed the 111 LA County WW parcels to bring them into parity with the SB side, so everyone is the same for the $85.14 per parcel dump card.

It really is bringing back a lot of funds already paid to the County back to WW. It should be enough to fix long neglected items in the bathrooms, the community building and so on. There should be enough money to make improvements.

It will take a few months to get the funds outlined above.. WW won't see very much in the way of funds until December/January but we have enough to maintain what we have for now.

Regards,

--Wes






Offline thehallmarks

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #75 on: Aug 11, 17, 04:11:00 PM »
Is there any limitation or regulation controlling what the funds generated by the $85+ solid waste tax/fee can be spent on?  It would appear to me that neither the county nor the CSD has carte blanch to spend $$ on anything that doesn't pertain to solid waste issues?

Offline lwt42

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #76 on: Aug 11, 17, 06:49:36 PM »
Quote: "If it doesn't have to do with Parks and Recreation, the CSD has no power to tax for it.

If it doesn't have to do with Waste Water (Sewer, if and when mandated), the CSD has no power to deal with it.

If it's not Street Lights, it's not the CSD.

If it doesn't deal with Trash, the CSD can't impose taxes or fees.

I think that list is complete.  Just those four topics."

Because we are such a backwater to both SB and LA county seats of power, we never would haves seen even a PROPOSAL to increase our taxes for any of these things.  In March, we were told we were simply voting for "local control" of existing money.  Now we see that we voted in a brand new taxing authority, yay!  If it hasn't happened yet, some significant buyer's remorse will set in soon.  The CSD is probably here to stay, but voters approving monies for improvements is very much in doubt.
It's always good to cite the quote so the author knows he's been quoted.

I'm not pro-CSD, I'm not against the CSD, but we do need a realistic idea of what it is when we discuss it.  We should have had a realistic idea of what it is when we went to the polls.

I grew up in a family where small local agencies and their funding was a constant discussion.  In our home, it was schools.

Proposition 13 put a huge cap on what districts could do, setting a limit in California of 1% of the assessed value, and a 2% increase per year.

An organization like the CSD can't raise taxes above that limit, and since SBC and LAC (and every other county in California) is already at or above the limit, the only way to raise taxes is by a 2/3rds vote of the registered voters.

Fees are a separate issue.

In theory, our Drivers' License fees pay for the DMV to issue drivers' licenses.  If it's a fee, it's not supposed to raise more than it costs to provide the service.

One thing we should be able to see once the CSD financials are available, is how much is collected in dump fees, and how much is then billed by the County for trash services.  I don't have a problem for example if we're paying for trash collection during the upcoming car show, or Mountaineer days.  I wouldn't mind if some of the "snow play" trash gets picked up using that money.

So, I'd have to disagree that we've voted a new taxing authority per-se.  We certainly have an organization that can levy fees, and there is a legal difference between a tax and a fee.

We also have a local meeting where we can find out about any proposed new fees, and at least two mechanisms to block new fees, and a set of Board Members that we can vote out.

Dump cards for L.A. County Wrightwood Residents was part of the proposal when we voted on the CSD.

Wes Zuber - WWCSD

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #77 on: Aug 11, 17, 08:32:36 PM »
Quote
One thing we should be able to see once the CSD financials are available, is how much is collected in dump fees, and how much is then billed by the County for trash services.  I don't have a problem for example if we're paying for trash collection during the upcoming car show, or Mountaineer days.  I wouldn't mind if some of the "snow play" trash gets picked up using that money.

I'm in total agreement. Everyone should have access and be totally clear on exactly where all monies are spent. I really can't wait till we get to this, I feel the CSD owes it to the community. Everyone should see how the levers are pulled, how the buttons are pushed and exactly how it works.

Regards,

--Wes

Offline KW

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Re: WCSD Notice of Public Hearing - August 3, 2017
« Reply #78 on: Aug 12, 17, 02:57:40 AM »
Regarding the costs for solid waste collection, everyone should also be aware of the State's strict recycling compliance and reporting laws. I'm not sure if the County or the CSD will be responsible for this reporting, but there is a lot of time involved for planning and education and keeping businesses and the CSD/County in compliance. I am a waste consultant and have seen jurisdictions fined significant amounts for non-compliance (by CalRecycle). You need to know it's not just our trash pickup and the occasional event clean up, there are other costs that may be incurred - either by the County, the CSD now that they are collecting the fees, or by CR&R. Before signing a new CR&R agreement, you should be sure everyone is on the same page with who is responsible for what regarding CalRecycle compliance, education and reporting.

There is mandatory commercial recycling and mandatory organics recycling:
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Recycle/Commercial/Organics/
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/recycle/commercial/

Because Wrightwood is in a remote area, there may be options for exemption. But CalRecycle is pretty strict and want to see efforts are being made to work towards these mandates.