Author Topic: To rectify County Fire budget, supervisors eye parcel tax - FP-5 (Read 338802 times)

tcaarabians · « **Reply #40 on:** Aug 21, 18, 09:18:52 AM »

Hank .. The "assessed value" of my parcel, that I pay to the County annually is two sums. It is the assessed value of the 'land' and the assessed value of the 'improvements.' Add them together and it equals the total assessed value of my 'parcel" .. my little slice of heaven. The District motion states 'assessed value of the land.' My question goes to the seemingly bifurcation of the term "land" from the actual total 'assessed value." Is that what they meant to do when they drafted the motion? I do not know. Does my question split a hair? Quite possibly. I need more coffee before we discuss this further.

Elk · « **Reply #41 on:** Aug 21, 18, 09:38:59 AM »

Quote from: Jim Wilkins on Aug 20, 18, 12:57:24 PM

Hank or Elk or someone smarter then me....take a look and tell me how much you are paying on your primary residence for Fire Department and paramedics per year on your property taxes.

Let me start by saying that I am yet undecided as to how I feel about this proposed increase and whether or not I will support it or not. I am split right now.

Secondly, I agree with Cheapskate that a significant portion (I don't know exactly how much) of my basic property tax currently goes toward fire services.

I am all for paying my fair share of the cost and have nothing but respect for the need and importance of making sure our fire dept. has what is needed to maintain services and reasonable response times.

I share the concern of others... when does it stop? When does government have to live within budget as we do in our daily lives?

Jim Wilkins · « **Reply #42 on:** Aug 21, 18, 02:21:54 PM »

Elk and Cheapskate....Maybe you can help me out....I pay around $3,000 for my current house in taxes each year. You seem to know what you pay for LE and Fire and it's a substantial part of the 3K that you pay each year. Could you share what that amount is for Public Safety (law enforcement and fire)? Not a perfect comparison but would be greatly interested. How did you find out that most of your taxes went to these two agencies. Thanks

Elk · « **Reply #43 on:** Aug 21, 18, 02:53:15 PM »

Quote from: Jim Wilkins on Aug 21, 18, 02:21:54 PM

Elk and Cheapskate....Maybe you can help me out....I pay around $3,000 for my current house in taxes each year. You seem to know what you pay for LE and Fire and it's a substantial part of the 3K that you pay each year. Could you share what that amount is for Public Safety (law enforcement and fire)? Not a perfect comparison but would be greatly interested. How did you find out that most of your taxes went to these two agencies. Thanks

Jim, I am not looking for an argument with you and never was nor did I claim that "most" of my "taxes went to these two agencies". What I said was a "significant portion (I don't know exactly how much)" as I do not know the actual breakdown. I also said... "I am all for paying my fair share of the cost and have nothing but respect for the need and importance of making sure our fire dept. has what is needed to maintain services and reasonable response times."

KW · « **Reply #44 on:** Aug 21, 18, 03:08:23 PM »

This report is 20 years old and I don't know what has changed since then, but it's a very interesting read about how the State money is split up between counties and cities, and discusses what percentage of property taxes go to each area. Maybe this will help understand the issue a bit better?

https://lao.ca.gov/1998/050798_county_revenues/050798_county_revenue.html

tcaarabians · « **Reply #45 on:** Aug 21, 18, 04:05:26 PM »

You can try this link for the county budget:

https://cms.sbcounty.gov/CAO-Finance/home.aspx

My links never, ever work. I googled "San Bernardino County, CA budget to find it. If you find it.. click on the pie chart to see what a woefully, pitiful slice of our county budget goes to fire. Law & Justice is slightly larger. The whopping majority of our county budget goes to 'human services." Let's save that debate for another time.

KW's link was interesting. As KW noted, it's way of date. It is about how counties receive revenue from the state and other sources.

This is an important discussion for all of us. We have to decide if we're going to protest the proposal for us to pay an additional fire fee. I'm going to bet my bloomers we can do this without getting angry at one another.
A segment of the county has been paying this additional fee. We are in a segment of the county that has not. That reality, for me at least, dispells the 'fair share' concept.
We're dealing with a lot more wild fires. Blue Cut is still seared in my memory. I would much rather be penny wise than pound foolish. The cost to me if my house goes up is a heck of a lot more than $150+ a year. cheryl o7o

Wrightwood · « **Reply #46 on:** Aug 21, 18, 04:47:56 PM »

SB County Adopted Budget 2017-2018
FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICT
Starts page 629
FP-5 starts on page 641
http://cms.sbcounty.gov/Portals/59/Content/2017-2018/2017-18-Adopted-Budget.pdf

Nolena · « **Reply #47 on:** Aug 21, 18, 07:13:39 PM »

Has San Bernardino County thought of contracting with CalFire for fire services like Riverside County does? Might be cheaper.

tcaarabians · « **Reply #48 on:** Aug 22, 18, 10:49:14 AM »

I spent a bit of time reviewing the budget links.

Here are a few factoids:

Total county budget - $5.8 billion

Total revenue from taxes - $913 million (that's all taxes)

Taxes compose 14.6% of revenue

Fire district budget is $252.3 million or 4.3% of the total budget

Fire serves 19,278 sq. miles and 60+ communities and cities.

Taxes contribute varying percentages to the various fire districts from 20% to 30%. The charts cutoff, so I'm not sure.

Feel free to correct any of these figures.

My conclusions: Yes, my property taxes contribute to the total revenue of the county. But, my property taxes are not the biggest piece of the pie. I have lived here 17 years. Not counting fires around me - of which there have been plenty. We have used fire services approx. nine times for various emergencies - mostly ambulances. Blue Cut still stands out in my memory.

We can certainly question whether our fire service dollars are being managed properly. It's the ever-popular refrain about government. It is a legitimate question. My own opinion is that it deserves specific questions - not just broad strokes of accusation.

I agree that the 'protest vote' procedures could use improvement. One Supervisor voted no because she wanted it to go straight to a vote. Our Supv. Lovingood thought that we should tax visitors instead. I call that the "throw the baby out with the bath water and call the F.D to find the baby theory."

I will try to make the meeting tonight. Hope to see some of you there. If not, I hope someone will post a summary of the meeting. Hope this info. is of assistance. cheryl o7o

Cheapskate · « **Reply #49 on:** Aug 22, 18, 06:43:45 PM »

I'll take a "stab" at correcting your figures. Every penny of that 5.8 billion comes from taxes, or fees "disguised" as taxes. Based on what you wrote, I surmise that most of it is income tax kicked-back from Sacramento, to run the jails and whatever else. Your figures suggest that only about 5% of the County budget goes to fire protection; I have a difficult time believing that, unless it's somehow doesn't include the payments that many cities make as part of their contract with county fire. I dunno; everyone knows on the gov't $$$ merry-go-round that a huge fraction of local spending is dedicated to 2 things and 2 things only, fire and law enforcement.

tcaarabians · « **Reply #50 on:** Aug 23, 18, 07:15:09 AM »

Good points Cheapskate - but nope. The figures I posted were in the CAO's budget. Yes, the biggest part of the County's revenues are from state and federal monies. Yes, that is our money - same pants different pockets. We were discussing how much of our property taxes were paying for fire services. It's less than you think. And, the percentage of the county budget that goes to fire and law/justice combined isn't even half of the budget. The budget delineates law/justice as one section. I assume that is Sheriff, courts and jails. I didn't look at it. The largest part of the budget is 'human services.'

The link in Wrightwood's post of 8/21/18 is the full county budget... all 900+ pages of it. I looked at the beginning that has the summaries of total spending and revenue. Then I looked at the Fire District section that starts on page 629. That's where I obtained the figures in my post of 8/22/18. Cheryl o7o

KW · « **Reply #51 on:** Aug 24, 18, 09:00:04 AM »

I wasn't able to make the meeting. Can someone tell me how many parcels in SB County will be taxed? Someone told me they are sending out 323,000 letters. But if you multiply that by $57, it's double the shortfall mentioned.

lwt42 · « **Reply #52 on:** Aug 24, 18, 10:00:47 AM »

Quote from: KW on Aug 24, 18, 09:00:04 AM

I wasn't able to make the meeting. Can someone tell me how many parcels in SB County will be taxed? Someone told me they are sending out 323,000 letters. But if you multiply that by $57, it's double the shortfall mentioned.

They didn't give a number of parcels.

The San Bernardino County Fire Protection District is responsible for 19,200 square miles of county.

Every part that is not covered by a contract (cities with their own fire authority) is going to be part of FP-5.

The Chief said that they have to individually notify each person named on the title for every parcel. If your title names you and your spouse, you get two notices.

tcaarabians · « **Reply #53 on:** Aug 24, 18, 10:19:49 AM »

Back somewhere in one of the links - I recall it stating an additional 11k+ parcels. I'm not sure if that includes those parcels that are already paying the fee. The fee will be $157 annually. Plus a 3 percent annual increase. I assume it will part of our annual property tax bill. Don't know that for sure. Cheryl o7o

lwt42 · « **Reply #54 on:** Aug 24, 18, 10:57:42 AM »

Quote from: KW on Aug 24, 18, 09:00:04 AM

I wasn't able to make the meeting. Can someone tell me how many parcels in SB County will be taxed? Someone told me they are sending out 323,000 letters. But if you multiply that by $57, it's double the shortfall mentioned.

It's $26.9 million in new revenue. 26,900,000 / 158 is 17,025 parcels.

That's only accurate to 3 significant figures because I'm sure it's not exactly $26.9m, but the number of parcels is good enough for discussion.

I have questions about the protest procedure, but we can say that 4,000 protests likely won't force a vote. The protests have to represent 25% of the value of those 17,000 parcels to force a vote.

AvocadoFlyer · « **Reply #55 on:** Aug 24, 18, 11:17:05 AM »

lwt42 · « **Reply #56 on:** Aug 24, 18, 01:04:54 PM »

tcaarabians · « **Reply #57 on:** Aug 24, 18, 03:35:58 PM »

The old fire fee that was assessed by the state was 'supposedly' for CalFire. There was a Jarvis lawsuit that was pending. The legislature and the Governor agreed to do away with that fee to obtain Republican votes for the 'cap & trade" legislation. Ultimately, the lawsuit was dismissed.

This new proposed fee goes directly to SBC for our county fire department. There is an existing tax/levy/fee for some parcels in the fire district. This proposal expands that to all parcels in unincorporated SBC. It is proposed to cover an operating deficit for the fire dept. that has been ongoing for awhile. I don' know why the county is analyzing this part of the budget as operating in a deficit that requires additional monies from general fund and reserves. Perhaps someone that went to the meeting can chime in and advise us about that. Cheryl o7o

lwt42 · « **Reply #58 on:** Aug 24, 18, 04:27:35 PM »

Quote from: tcaarabians on Aug 24, 18, 03:35:58 PM

I don' know why the county is analyzing this part of the budget as operating in a deficit that requires additional monies from general fund and reserves. Perhaps someone that went to the meeting can chime in and advise us about that. Cheryl o7o

The Fire Protection District is not a county agency. It is a separate entity, not unlike Snowline School District or Victor Valley College.

It's not the County Government that is calling out this deficit, it's the Fire Protection District.

Chief Hartwig said that during his tenure, they've gone to the County and the County has voluntarily sent money from the County General Fund to the San Bernardino County Fire Protection District general fund -- a little more each year.

Apparently, there have been rumblings that they may, or may not, be able or willing to contribute in future years.

That's what this is for, to reduce the dependence on contributions from the County, who has no legal obligation to help.

From Chief Hartwig's point of view, this is what he should do for the continued health of his agency.

What bothers me is the conflict of interest between the SBCFPD Board of Directors and the County Board of Supervisors -- the two boards are made up of the same five people.

KW · « **Reply #59 on:** Aug 24, 18, 05:42:03 PM »

What bothers me is I have no idea what steps have been taken to reduce spending before deciding to increase all our property tax bills. I don't like paying additional fees/taxes when there may be bloat in the form of salaries, pensions, overhead, or any number of things that could be addressed first. But who has time to review every page of that budget, and then how do you get answers and make those changes? Sometimes I feel like "they" think it's just easier to do this.