Jackson Lake

[lagomorphmom]

Although, I am a firm believer of no matter what signage you use... blinking portable signs... etc most folks disreguard them or they figure they do not pertain to them. 

Maybe an improvement in the system could at least save people who are ignorant of the danger even if we can't save those who really are stupid, know better, and do it anyway. As far as ignoring signs, seems to me there should be an impact difference in ignoring a parking sign on the off chance that they might get a ticket vs. freezing to death in the lake. I often have low expectations of 'the public' too, believe you me, but maybe here's somewhere worthwhile to at least do a trial of something better. Toolman remarked to me that the flashing signs are expensive to operate. On the chance that they make an improvement if not a solution, maybe the cost would be offset by less trash in the lake when it melts, of course that's probably a different budget entity, I dunno. I like the picture signs that people have posted, too. Have to say I agree with breezy and not management about them being of decent size.

[lagomorphmom]

So with that being said, I guess we are to believe that an eskimo will unknowingly go skipping his way into a hot bed of molten lava!

You don't really believe that's a similar example, do you? Frozen ice is much more a hidden danger than glowing molten lava, usually with flames in it, not to mention the intense heat you'd feel getting remotely near it. Maybe you were trying to be funny?

[Surfer_Dude]

When I was a freshman in HS a neighbor fell in the ice and looked to be drowning.  His dog went in after him and there were the two of them in the water splashing.  I had no choice in my inexperienced mind, if I went for help for sure they would be dead.  I went in after them.  I was at the time a Sr. Lifesaver and knew it could have meant the end of me.  As I went to get them sprawled out on the ice, the ice gave underneath me.  Splash, all the coldness I could want all over me.  I immediately realized I was only chest deep and got them both out.  The boy was in such panic mode I couldn't tell he was in such shallow water.  I know it was a silly move but I was young and careless.  An event like this on Jackson Lake could result in a serious chain event.

My lampooning was just a polite way to point at ignorance; I myself have been guilty of being on "thin ice" most of my life.  Just ask my wife.

[Hillbillies]

So with that being said, I guess we are to believe that an eskimo will unknowingly go skipping his way into a hot bed of molten lava!

 Maybe you were trying to be funny?

Yes, trying......   

[CA5th]

Signs in Enlish and Spanish won't work either.  I think research into what appropriate Korean picture would work along with a sign in Korean might help.  I didn't see too many Hispanics in those pictures.

The Forest Service could also help by issuing citations to all those without the proper day use pass.  When I last went to Jackson Lake there were signs requiring the pass.  I just wonder how many had passes?

[cabindweller]

Eeesh. Looking at those photos reminds of the pictures of tourists in Thailand, wandering out to look at the freaky low water levels right before the tsunami hit. 

Like this one: http://www.wavescape.co.za/top_bar/tidings/Oneoffs/Tsunami04/tsunami04_railaysequence.htm

Good lord.

[Toolman]

Signs in Enlish and Spanish won't work either.  I think research into what appropriate Korean picture would work along with a sign in Korean might help.  I didn't see too many Hispanics in those pictures.

The Forest Service could also help by issuing citations to all those without the proper day use pass.  When I last went to Jackson Lake there were signs requiring the pass.  I just wonder how many had passes?

 Your absolutely correct, the FS could issue NNC's to those parked in no parking zones and without adventure passes. The problem is, FS doesn't have the staffing and they cover many miles of territory and can not possibly cite enough violators to make an impact on the population we had this weekend. Hopefully this situation can be remedied in the near future.

 Additionally, during my ventures to the snow play areas, 90% of the population spreading their cheer where Hispanics. When I was at Apple Tree yesterday not one vehicle had an Adventure pass and I'd guess 60-70 vehicles were parked there. At approx. 5 minutes to write an NNC without interruption,  do the math on how long it would take one person to write up 60 violators.

 I mentioned previuosly I spoke to the CHP officer desperately trying to enforce traffic at Mtn. High of the Lake issue. He placed a call and it may have done some good. Today two new signs were installed with more to come soon. One on the north end along Big Pines Hwy and the other in the parking area to the south. These signs were not there yesterday.




 I spent the day shooting some weekend aftermath photo's and once uploaded I'll post them.

[TheSandman]

is the freezing of the lake an annual event?

how thick do you think the ice is?

i have to admit, it looks tempting to walk across.

sledding liquored up in the 1970's down the icy street from the top of acorn all the way past our lady of the snows until it levels off by highway 2 without a helmut on a dime store sled was unbelievably stupid as well.  and i seriously do not recommend doing this.  however, still one of my favorite top twenty memories of all time.

[Nick]

How about having the FS break up the ice along the edges so there is no access onto the lake?

[Wildman]

Now that is one of the better ideas I have heard in a while.  Take a small rowboat and work your way around the lake with a light sledge or axe.

As far as how thick it can get, there was a winter around ten years ago when we trained PCF's on ice rescue with borrowed dry suits.  We had to use a chain saw in the middle of the lake to cut through around 4 inches of ice.  That was in the dead of winter with four feet of snow on the ground.  I can only imagine how decadent the ice must be with the only semi-cold temps we have been getting.  

[wwpt]

 
   I was actually surprised to see that thick of ice at all on the lake. I can imagine when we get a warm spell and it starts to thaw out, sometimes unpredictably. The right combination of conditions can make a seemingly safe spot the first to go, as has been proven many times up in the real ice country.

 

[KWBoy]

How about having the FS break up the ice along the edges so there is no access onto the lake?

Why the forest service? Why not The BostonBob Company  

[Wrightwood]

I spoke with Toolman a number of times today and he said you could see the water flowing under the ice so it's not thick.

I was actually surprised to see that thick of ice at all on the lake. I can imagine when we get a warm spell and it starts to thaw out, sometimes unpredictably. The right combination of conditions can make a seemingly safe spot the first to go, as has been proven many times up in the real ice country.

[Breezymtns]

I am grateful to one of the Grassy Hollow Volunteers whom came into Big Pines to staff the counter while I went out with another volunteer to write NNC's.  We just walked from Big Pines out toward Mtn High East.  We hit about 75 cars & yes toolman you are right the interruptions are MANY!  I got to the point where, when the people would come running up to me with their notice... I'd say can you read?  They'd say Yes... I'd say well read the directions!  I am very busy at the moment!  Another thing that ended up consuming valuable time is that a man tried to run me over (I won't mention his ethnicity) & also tried to hit my rig.  He also drove away without his 3 small children!!!  So, that was all it took to really screw up what was... a productive day of NNC writing.    

[Wrightwood]

I assume that a NNC is a Notice of Non Compliance.
What is the penalty involved?
Is it enforced?

[Surfer_Dude]

[Breezymtns]

I am happy to report... for the time being anyhow....
This a.m. I went by Jackson Lake @ 6:30 a.m. & a good part of it was UNFROZEN   There was even some die hard fishermen there fishin' already lol  I hope if they can clearly see water on the majority of the lake... not ice that might make a "light" go off in their head & they will realize it truly is unsafe.  We'll see.... I am NOT gonna hold my breath though!

btw... wrong topic area but B.P Hwy was a very icy drive.

[Nick]

Now would be the time to break up the ice so there is no access onto the lake.

I am happy to report... for the time being anyhow....
This a.m. I went by Jackson Lake @ 6:30 a.m. & a good part of it was UNFROZEN   There was even some die hard fishermen there fishin' already lol  I hope if they can clearly see water on the majority of the lake... not ice that might make a "light" go off in their head & they will realize it truly is unsafe.  We'll see.... I am NOT gonna hold my breath though!

btw... wrong topic area but B.P Hwy was a very icy drive.

[Toolman]

Now would be the time to break up the ice so there is no access onto the lake.

Yea...no kidding....Cal Trans has the boom-sticks to git'r done. 

[MountainGrizzly]

Maybe Mountain Hardware could start selling Velcro Jackets with Ropes attached.

That way, when the Diaper people fall into the lake, as they are dragged out by their friends (hopefully not tied to the bumper of their car) the velcro can dredge the diapers, trash can lids and McDonalds trash out of the lake.  ;-)