Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE

[Wrightwood]

Just heard that Tanker 910 was flying locally today.

[FSfirefighter]

I too heard T-910 and Lead 90 flying today on the scanner.

Folks, if you are firefighters, law enforcement, or other emergency responders.... get your dress blues or greens in order.

[hill okie]

What in the H---- does that mean!!

[Wildman]

He doesn't have much faith in T910's ability to stay in the sky. 

[hill okie]

Hope the crew's family and friends aren't viewing this forum.

[FSfirefighter]

Hope the crew's family and friends aren't viewing this forum.

Some of the families and friends from other accidents are viewing this forum. Before you speak out about my comments, please consider some time off before you lash out and speak.

What the hell does "Trolling for Dollars" have to do with the safety of firefighters and the communities they protect?

[RobertW]

Calm down people!!!

With everything else but "Crop dusters" grounded, lets hope the this aircraft can make a difference in fighting fire from the sky.

In reading the news lately, it appears that the government fire agencies are just giving up due to lack of funding.  "Let it burn!"

While like Clint, I feel that letting a forest burn can be a good thing, It is a travesty that such decisions are based on politics and funding.

[K9luvr]

In reading the news lately, it appears that the government fire agencies are just giving up due to lack of funding.  "Let it burn!"

While like Clint, I feel that letting a forest burn can be a good thing, It is a travesty that such decisions are based on politics and funding.

Actually, it is only ONE agency that is making that decision--the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) is the one telling the wildland fire agencies that "it is not your job to protect homes in the wildland urban interface, it is your job to fight fire on your lands."  They are the ones that are telling USFS, BLM, USFWS, etc. to "let it burn."  

[SkierBob]

Actually, it is only ONE agency that is making that decision--the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) is the one telling the wildland fire agencies that "it is not your job to protect homes in the wildland urban interface, it is your job to fight fire on your lands."  They are the ones that are telling USFS, BLM, USFWS, etc. to "let it burn."  

What a great way to get tax payer support....

Maybe the tax payers would rather save their money and  let the USFS and BLM land burn. 

[FSfirefighter]

I'd hope that taxpayers (especially those within areas that that the USFS and BLM protect).... would act on two things....

1) Proper clearance from wildland fire hazards, and

2) Educate your elected officials that a fire that happens in the Cucamonga or Sheep Creek Wilderness areas is not something to be "managed for resource or wilderness values".... They are to be managed to protect the communities at risk.

[Chuck]

I may be off hear but...

Several things cross my mind when reading this.  One is that  finally in the recent decade we realize the damage of putting out all fires.  We created a more hazardous situation by having too many trees saved from fires and therefore don't have a healthy forest.  We now back off and try to correct this situation.  We try to educate and implement programs to mitigate the problem.  The 2nd scary thought is that we have some bureaucrat(s) that realize that we need to let some fires burn.  The problem is that if you don't try to protect those that now live in or around the areas from the problem, by backing off either due to budget reasons or strategy, we are not doing our jobs.  I believe that we must protect lives and homes first, and then also do all we can to help the forest get back to a healthy state.   

I'm not talking about homes alone in the middle of the forest.  I'm speaking of communities that were allowed to grow (like WW).

Our job of educating people in making their homes more fire safe is even more critical, but getting this takes a long time.  I don't think in the short term it is acceptable (yet) to say we will let their home burn because they took no precaution.

[Firemn41]

This fire is as bad as the Day fire that burned on the LPF, I think those guys are milking this for whats its worth

[RobertW]

This fire is as bad as the Day fire that burned on the LPF, I think those guys are milking this for whats its worth

I hope you're not saying that the firefighters "are milking this for what it is worth".  I come from a long line of firefighters, my grandfather was a Battalion Chief, and I can assure you that the firefighter is not "milking it for all it's worth".   My relatives were trained to extinguish fires and that is what they do.  My nephew was nearly overrun by fire two years ago in the fire that hit the Stevenson Ranch area of L.A. County.  They were even deploying fire shelters as they knew they were in serious trouble.  If it weren't for an L.A. County water dropping helicopter making a perfect drop he might not be here today.  I HOPE you're talking about the politicians.   If you're suggesting that the firefighters are "milking it", shame on you for having the handle of "Firemn41".

[Wildman]

You know, Joe, for someone who makes a heck of good living with CalFire in Riverside County, you have a lot of gall saying the Zaca fire managment team is sandbagging:  "I think those guys are milking this for whats its worth."  What data are you basing that statement on.  Am I not reading the sit report correctly every morning or "News and Notes" on the GACC site?
Have you read any of the archived news reports chronicling the incredible difficulty of this ground?  Did you know the fire grew by 4,000 acres again today?

Tell the folks, with your extensive wildland command experience, about the different considerations on the LP that the command team is facing and how they are gleefully thinking up new ways to stretch this one out.  Will you share about the  roadless terrain that is vertical in most places or the wilderness designation that can preclude direct attack?  How about the area burning right now that has no recorded fire history on it.   Do you think Engine 57 (or the recent burnover of 9 CalFire firefighters on the Inyo Complex) has anything to do with not putting people out in front of this fire.  You really think they are milking it?  Really?  Tell that to John Hawkins and let us know his response.  Are you aware that the Chief of the Forest Service sent out her personal representative to the ZACA fire and they stayed a day and went back.  They were satisfied that the course that had been chosen was the one for the current situation.   Your statement just floors me.  You make it sound like we can influence a fire of this magnitude without weeks and weeks of hard, back breaking work only to have a blow out run to the next town.

There is an old Chinese saying, "Anyone can be a General in time of peace".  Unless you can quantify what you are saying, I'd probably not pass judgement
on some pretty savvy folks doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt. 

[hill okie]

 

[RobertW]

Here's a link to the contract for the DC-10

http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/dc10agreement.pdf

[Wrightwood]

I didn't realize that it was a 3 year contract.

[RobertW]

Here is something I just found out...

We know that Tanker 910 (the DC10 Supertanker) is contracted as mentioned above.  But, many people are under the impression that Cal Fire owns most of their aircraft.   

Some feel that the S-2T's are owned by Cal Fire, but the pilots that fly them are contracted.  They also feel that the Super-Huey's Copters are owned by Cal Fire and the pilots are all Cal Fire employees.

The actual truth is that the aircraft used by Cal Fire (CDF) ARE owned by the USFS and then "permanently" loaned to CDF through the FEPS program.  The federal ownership of CDF's airtankers is not widely known and it appears that some people in CDF are not aware of it either.

Here are some airworthness certificates from the FAA....

N494DF super huey...
N494DF is Assigned
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 11303 Type Registration Government
Manufacturer Name BELL Certificate Issue Date 12/05/1991
Model EH-1X Status Valid
Type Aircraft Rotorcraft Type Engine Turbo-Shaft
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51417505
MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO

Registered Owner

Name USDA FOREST SERVICE FEPP
Street 5500 PRICE AVE
City MCCLELLAN State CALIFORNIA Zip Code 95652-2421
County SACRAMENTO
Country UNITED STATES

Here is another, now an ov-10 air attack...


Aircraft Description

Serial Number 305128M68 Type Registration Government
Manufacturer Name NORTH AMERICAN Certificate Issue Date 03/10/1993
Model OV-10A Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-Prop
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51130251
MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO

Registered Owner

Name USDA FOREST SERVICE FEPP
Street 5500 PRICE AVE
City MCCLELLAN State CALIFORNIA Zip Code 95652-2421
County SACRAMENTO
Country UNITED STATES

Here is one more showing the regestered owner-USFS and the "other" owner CDF.


Tanker 83....
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 152820 Type Registration Government
Manufacturer Name MARSH AVIATION Certificate Issue Date 08/30/2001
Model S-2F3AT Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-Prop
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51205314
MFR Year 1966 Fractional Owner NO

Registered Owner

Name USDA FOREST SERVICE FEPP
Street 5500 PRICE AVE
City MCCLELLAN State CALIFORNIA Zip Code 95652-2421
County SACRAMENTO
Country UNITED STATES

Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer AIRESEARCH Classification Restricted
Engine Model TPE331 SERIES Category Forest

A/W Date 03/28/2003

This is the most current Airworthiness Certificate data, however, it may not reflect the current aircraft configuration. For that information, see the aircraft record. A copy can be obtained at http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp

Other Owner Names

CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY AND FIRE PROTECTION

[RobertW]

Tanker 910 dropped twice yesterday on the Stevens Fire in Santa Clara Unit.

2,400ft altitude decending drops.

2 HOUR turn-around time from Victorville though.



For video of it...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/14016712/detail.html

CUPERTINO -- For the first time, a controversial DC-10 converted into a fire-fighting air tanker swooped low over the Bay Area hills to battle a wildfire above Cupertino near the Stevens Creek Reservoir.

[Wrightwood]

910 made a number of drops in Lake Arrowhead yesterday.