Author Topic: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE  (Read 54785 times)

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Wildman

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Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« on: Jun 15, 07, 10:06:03 AM »
This is a link to an interesting information sheet about the DC-10 Air Tanker based out of Victorville.  They are now available to respond immediately to fires on CALFIRE jurisdiction.  Lots of interesting information and pictures.

http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/dc10-t910.pdf

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #1 on: Jun 25, 07, 10:04:14 PM »
Unfortunatley today the DC-10 had a mishap while working on the White Fire in Kern County.

Sounds like it came in contact with a radio tower after a downdraft.

The DC-10 safely made an emergency landing at So Cal Airport in Victorville.

Offline RennMan

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #2 on: Jun 26, 07, 07:43:32 AM »

Wildman

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #3 on: Jun 26, 07, 07:53:51 AM »
Makes you think of a scene from the the Spielberg movie on firefighting aircraft where the ship hits the trees and keeps on flying.  What an incredible story....thank goodness the crew brought the ship back safely.

Offline RennMan

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #4 on: Jun 26, 07, 08:02:22 AM »
This movie?

"Always"  Steven Spielberg, 1989

Richard Dreyfuss, Holly Hunter, John Goodman, Audrey Hepburn

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096794/

Wildman

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #5 on: Jun 26, 07, 10:03:39 AM »
Thanks!  That was the name I couldn't remember.  A great action movie with great effects.

Offline K9luvr

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #6 on: Jun 26, 07, 02:25:42 PM »
I couldn't get past the first 15 minutes as half of the people in the movie would have been fired on a real fire.  Beer in fire camp?  Never seen THAT one....   :P 

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #7 on: Jun 27, 07, 12:39:08 PM »
Grounded firefighting jet raised doubts among USFS officials

By MARCUS WOHLSEN

The Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO

A one-time passenger jet modified to fight wildfires remained grounded Tuesday after striking the tops of several trees and nearly crashing while battling a mountain blaze along the San Joaquin Valley's southern edge.

The DC-10 air tanker was unveiled with much fanfare by California fire officials last year as the first firefighting jet of its kind and used again in 2007 despite the U.S. Forest Service's refusal to certify the plane for firefighting use.

The plane was preparing to drop fire retardant along a Kern County ridge when a severe downdraft forced the aircraft to sink 100 to 200 feet, said Mike Padilla, chief of aviation for California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

The jet's left wing clipped the tops of several trees, estimated to be 100 to 150 feet tall, but the pilots powered safely out of the descent.

"They were under complete control the whole time," Padilla said.

No one was injured in the near-miss incident, and the crew returned to its base in Victorville.

The plane, known as Tanker 910, was being used to halt the spread of a wildfire about 80 miles north of Los Angeles. The blaze, dubbed the White Fire, had burned more than 16 square miles of brush and destroyed five buildings by Tuesday afternoon, state forestry spokesman Martin Johnson said.

The Forest Service has refused to certify the plane over concerns about the number of hours already logged on the 31-year-old DC-10, said Mark Rey, a Department of Agriculture undersecretary.

In the summer of 2002, two large air tankers that suffered in-flight structural failures while fighting fires crashed, killing a total of five crew members. In both cases, the wings on a PB4Y-2 over Colorado and a C-130 flying near Yosemite National Park appeared to fall off.

"What we're concerned about is catastrophic metal fatigue that results in a plane breaking up in the air, because those are the accidents we had a couple years ago," Rey said. "Call us overly cautious, but we're erring on (the side of) an abundance of caution based on two previous accidents where the two planes broke up in the air."

Tanker 910's virtual prohibition from federal land, including national forests, means it cannot be dispatched over vast swaths of California, including the slopes near Lake Tahoe where a destructive wildfire is raging.

The DC-10 jet has won approvals to serve as a firefighting aircraft from the Federal Aviation Administration and the Interagency Air Tanker Board. The FAA's certifications allowed Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to deploy it in California, Rey said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

But the McDonnell Douglas aircraft was only designed to fly 67,000 hours and has passed that figure, said Tom Harbour, director of fire and aviation management for the Forest Service.

The jet can be flown past that, but the manufacturer or modifier must demonstrate to the government why it can still be safely operated, Harbour said by phone.

The California forestry department's aviation chief called the Forest Service's limit on the DC-10's service life an "artificial requirement." While the jet's major components must be replaced after being used for a certain number of hours, Padilla said, the plane itself has no specific limits on hours of use.

"We're absolutely satisfied and pleased with what this aircraft is doing," Padilla said. "It's a very good tool, and we think it has a future."

State officials hope to get the jet airborne again within 30 days, pending repairs and an investigation into the cause of the mishap, Padilla said.

The DC-10 can carry 12,000 gallons of water or fire retardant 10 times the volume of the standard propeller planes that make up the bulk of California's firefighting air fleet.

Among its accomplishments, state fire officials credit Tanker 910 with knocking back the edge of the Day fire, the fifth largest in modern California history, as flames threatened the popular tourist town of Ojai.

The jet once belonged to American Airlines and later flew 380-passenger charter flights to Hawaii before being put on fire fighting duty. The plane fought five fires last year and deposited retardant on two Kern County fires over the weekend before Monday's incident.

The state has contracted with the plane's owner, 10 Tanker Air Carrier of Victorville, for exclusive use of Tanker 910 through the 2009 fire season at a cost of $5 million per year.

Calls to 10 Tanker Air Carrier were not immediately returned.

The White Fire was about 50 percent contained by late Tuesday, Johnson said. Crews did not know when to expect full containment.

One firefighter who suffered an undisclosed "medical emergency" had to be airlifted to a hospital where he was in stable condition, he said.

Overnight, burning debris rolled beyond the northern fire line and ignited brush in the nearby Horse Thief Canyon area, Forest Service spokesman Virgil Mink said. Morning firefighting crews were mopping up those scattered flames, he said.

A state assessment team was evaluating possible fire damage to the summer homes and cabins that dot the area, but no damage had been confirmed, Mink said.

___

Associated Press Writers Scott Lindlaw in San Francisco and Jacob Adelman in Los Angeles contributed to this story.

Published: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 21:55 PDT

clint

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #8 on: Jun 27, 07, 01:00:25 PM »
Is this where I get to say I told you so?

As I said when this program started and I interviewed the press liason from the company, these are not appropriate for fires in steep terrain!

The may carry more than an S2T (which is small as tankers go, so not a good measuring stick) but smaller more nimble aircraft can manuever in tight canyons. Plus the load and return time is longer on these.

KWBoy

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #9 on: Jun 27, 07, 05:39:39 PM »
I have doubts about using a DC-10 for anything... let alone an air tanker. They had lots of problems with this aircraft when it first came out. Some major design flaws were figured out after a few accidents. This tanker was a former American Airlines Aircraft... that tells you something right there.  ;)

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #10 on: Jul 02, 07, 08:17:17 PM »

Wildman

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #11 on: Jul 05, 07, 08:28:36 PM »
Here is a shot of the damage caused by that ground strike several weeks ago on
Tanker 910.  Very lucky crew.



KWBoy

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #12 on: Jul 05, 07, 08:34:16 PM »
It doesn't  show up  :-\

Offline Bob C

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kew

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #14 on: Jul 05, 07, 08:50:56 PM »
Yikes!!! They got kinda close.

Wildman

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #15 on: Jul 05, 07, 09:04:14 PM »


I think I clicked on the wrong url link in photobucket the first time

KWBoy

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #16 on: Jul 05, 07, 09:05:58 PM »
That sure changed the aerodynamics of the wing quick  :o That is worse than I imagined. Hope the flap is just damaged and nothing structural with the wing or engine pylon.  :-\ Surprised they could power up and get altitude since there is a delay from the throttle input and the response from the engines.

kew

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #17 on: Jul 05, 07, 09:18:52 PM »
A little to port and they would have lost the engine or the landing gear. Then they would have been in trouble.

KWBoy

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #18 on: Jul 06, 07, 12:21:34 AM »
It could have lost an engine but It could have made it back to base with only engine #2 and #3. Glad the engine didn't ingest any tree limbs. The landing gear wouldn't go anywhere because it shouldn't have been down  ;) Besides it would take a heck of a lot to rip off the landing gear of that beast.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Tanker 910 now in service with CALFIRE
« Reply #19 on: Jul 16, 07, 07:23:47 AM »
By RICHARD BROOKS
The Press-Enterprise

The nation's only jumbo fire bomber is scheduled to return to duty next week following repairs to a wing that was damaged when the converted jetliner hit several treetops and nearly crashed, officials say.

"We're thankful that no one got hurt and the damage was as minimal as it was," said Rick Hatton, managing partner of the company that owns the Victorville-based DC-10. "It's a testament to the robustness of the airplane."

The DC-10 became the nation's first giant supertanker last year when it fought fires in California and Washington.

The near-crash happened July 25 when the big jet clipped trees along a ridge top while its crew was preparing to drop 12,000 gallons of sticky red fire retardant -- 10 times the payload of California's regular air tankers -- on a blaze near Tehachapi.

"While in a left turn (onto final approach to the target) the left wing dropped downward and impacted several trees," according to a preliminary report by the National Transportation Safety Board.

The cause of the accident has not been determined. But the pilots say they hit air turbulence immediately before they hit the trees, Hatton said.

Since the accident, two of the DC-10's captains and one co-pilot, all experienced airline pilots, have undergone refresher training for air-tanker operations and have been accompanying veteran tanker pilots in the state's medium-sized S-2T tankers, state fire aviation officials say.

The accident inflicted substantial damage on the leading and trailing edges of the jet's left wing, including portions of the leading-edge slats, the ailerons and flaps, according to the preliminary report and Hatton.

Fixing the plane amounted largely to removing and replacing the damaged parts. The No. 1 engine was unscathed.

"That was pretty lucky, because it hangs down off the left wing, and there was damage to either side of it," Hatton said.

Two earlier drops that day on the same fire were uneventful. Hatton attributed the accident to unanticipated "extreme turbulence" near the ridge.

"The description I heard from the crew ... was that there was nothing abnormal about the situation. It was going very well," Hatton said. "Then 'the bottom fell out' on the left wing due to this condition of air (turbulence) that can sometimes happen in mountain flying."

As part of its standard procedures, the jet was following a much smaller "lead plane" that points out the target and acts as a pathfinder to the drop point.

The lead plane made its run successfully. But it may have taken a slightly different path than the jet, or the turbulence may have developed after the lead plane passed the trouble spot, Hatton said.

The jet fights fires under a $5 million contract with Cal Fire, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, which operates its own fleet of 23 medium-size air tankers and uses the DC-10 as its "big gun."

Cal Fire Investigating

Cal Fire is doing its own investigation of the accident.

"We know (the cause) is not mechanical," said Chief Mike Padilla, who oversees the agency's aviation division. "There was turbulence that day, but we don't think that was the sole cause.

"We're looking at everything from the weather -- turbulence -- on that date to our procedures for lining up the aircraft (toward the target) and how the pilots were perceiving the drop."

Although it's common practice for tanker pilots to jettison their retardant during an emergency, the DC-10 crew didn't drop the 96,000-pound load.

"They did not perceive that they had a need to do that," said Padilla.

"They thought they'd hit some turbulence because they felt the bump," he said.

But the treetops apparently caused most of the bump, although the crew didn't realize it.

"As they pulled up, the lead (plane pilot) looked back ... and advised them that they had damage to the wing," Padilla said.

Emphasizing that his agency's investigation isn't complete, Padilla said that accidents rarely happen for only one reason.

Fooled by Terrain

In this case, the pilots were turning onto their final approach near a ridgeline in a type of plane that is new to firefighting and low-level mountain flying.

"Even experienced pilots get fooled by the (mountainous) terrain, which affects your perception," Padilla said. "We've had several tree strikes this year."

Preventing additional accidents requires detailed analysis of many factors, he said, ranging from the agency's procedures for lead planes and tankers to the DC-10's operating methods and the pilots' training, decisions and actions.

There are many questions to be answered, he said.

"What is the pilot perceiving? What is he looking at? How do we give him an extra margin of safety? Do we line him up sooner? Do we not turn over ridgelines?" Padilla mused. "Do we drop (the retardant) from a higher altitude?"

And since pilots can't see wind, they have to know how it behaves near ridgelines and what to expect.

"You get lift on the side where the wind's coming from," Padilla said. "And as it goes over the hill, you'll get turbulence as (it breaks like a wave at the beach and) it begins to burble.

"Aerial firefighting is more of an art than a science."