Esperanza Fire OSHA Report

[FSfirefighter]

Today is one of the saddest days of my life. OSHA really messed up with the facts in this report and really slammed some good folks who lost their lives in the line of duty protecting others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Report faults Forest Service
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_webosha.1ebaca4.html

04:34 PM PDT on Thursday, July 19, 2007

By Lora Hines
Press-Enterprise

Report: Read or download the complete report.

The U.S. Forest Service failed to provide a safe working environment when five firefighters died during last year's Esperanza Fire, a federal investigation has found.

On Thursday, the U.S. Labor Department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration issued the Forest Service a notice of unsafe or unhealthful working conditions, which includes serious safety standard violations. A serious violation is one in which there is substantial probability that death or serious physical harm could happen and employers knew or should have known about the danger.

The Forest Service has until Aug. 13 to develop correction plans or ask for a hearing with OSHA officials. OSHA spokesman Roger Gayman didn't immediately know whether fines also had been assessed with the violations.

The OSHA investigation into the fire is the second to be completed. In May, a joint report by the Forest Service and Cal Fire found risky choices contributed to the deaths of the five firefighters as they protected an unoccupied home in the rugged San Jacinto Mountains south of Banning. Flames whipped by Santa Ana winds raced up a steep drainage and swept over them.

A third agency, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's inspector general's office, has not yet completed its investigation.

The Esperanza Fire started in the early morning of Oct. 26 west of Cabazon on land under state jurisdiction. It raced into the San Bernardino National Forest, which is the U.S. Forest Service's responsibility, burning more than 41,000 acres and destroying 34 homes and 20 outbuildings.

Four U.S. Forest Service firefighters from Engine 57 - Capt. Mark Loutzenhiser, 43, of Idyllwild; Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; McKay, 27, of Apple Valley; and Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto - died that day. Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley, who suffered burns to over 90 percent of his body, was taken off life support Oct. 31.

[Wildman]

Notice of Unsafe Working Conditions!  Ya Think!

I concur, FSFirefighter.  It made me sick to my stomach.  I got calls today from folks who have worked with me at CNN and AP regarding this travesty of justice called an OSHA report.  I referred the reporters to the San Bernardino National Forest and to the Regional USFS Office for comment. 

Here is a link to the actual report:

http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/osha-esperanza-report.pdf

If firefighters and cops were to consult their OSHA manual every time they responded, no one would respond.  According the OSHA, we should all wait until daylight to scout the terrain before we engage in firefighting and have a current map of the fire before we go in. 

Friends, every single day of the year these men and women put themselves on the line for the good of us all.  The rule book soothsayers and Monday Morning Quarterbacks wait until after the fact to say, "You shoulda done it this way".   Along with the penny pinching financial constraints that these folks have to operate under...They pretty much make me sick.

That being said, the Incident Management Team I am working for this summer just went on two hour call.  Be safe out there, FSfirefighter.  It's burning like a mad dog out there.

[Calindy]

God Bless Our Firefighters!!

I cannot imagine how the families feel about this report. Makes me sick too..

We were coming up the pass this afternoon and there was a car on fire on the shoulder. I called 911, was NOT the only one by the way, I am sure we were all fearing the fire would spread. It tried to...but the Firefighters kept it under control . This is such a scary time, everything is so very dry.

[snowave]

Nobody likes outside agencies making assessments and decisions on things like this.. however, the consensus I have gotten from day 1 from some of the guys who were ON this fire (and others with inside info) are that yes, unfortunately, some poor decisions were made.

Regardless of who is "right or wrong", these guys are still heroes, and their hearts did what they thought was right.

[Wildman]

I was assigned to the Esperanza Fire and then the Engine 57 Support effort from the morning of October 26th (18 hours after the fire started) and remained attached until just three weeks ago.  I have looked into their faces day in and day out on my computer preparing the DVD's of their services for their families.  I have as much inside info as most...with direct access to all of the key players from both agencies and I have never gotten that "consensus".  Were poor decisions made that day?  Perhaps.  Are poor decisions made on every fire?  Probably.  I know how hard Management Teams work to insure that our firefighters are provided with all of the information and tools they need to make good decisions.  Does it happen in the initial attack mode?  Hardly ever.  I can only think of the less then perfect decisions I made over the years in tactical situations.  Hindsight is always a heck of a lot easier around the coffee pot.

Point was that if you read the OSHA report and take it as gospel,  all initial attack should pretty much come to a stop because it is not safe.  They are citing the Forest Service for having an "unsafe working environment" while engaged in firefighting.   These are OSHA safety experts, not firefighters.  They can't tell the difference between the 10 & the 18.  They use the word, "turnouts", a back East term for structure firefighting gear for PPE.  Given their logic, all structure fire fighting should cease until we can get a map of the interior of the burning home and what dangerous substances might be burning or whether the person we are treating has a contagious disease.  Yeah, OSHA sticks in my craw.

[kk_gizmo]

My favorite part of the report:

"USFS firefighters did not see the area prior to the start of the fire."

Sounds like OSHA wants all firefighters to predict the future and go take the time to study areas they 'know' will be burning this year before they burn. I didn't realize precognative abilities were required to being a firefighter!!

[Wildman]

The Forest Service has until the 16th of August to remedy these unsafe working conditions.  I am not sure what happens when they magically can't make wildland firefighting safe...we'll just to start posting those OSHA notices out on the trees.

[Nolena]

Firefighting and unsafe conditions..... ......
Maybe they're only suposed to fight friendly, cool, safe fires.....from 1/4 mile away..... ......until someone invents safe fires. 

[snowave]

I was assigned to the Esperanza Fire and then the Engine 57 Support effort from the morning of October 26th (18 hours after the fire started) and remained attached until just three weeks ago.  I have looked into their faces day in and day out on my computer preparing the DVD's of their services for their families.  I have as much inside info as most...with direct access to all of the key players from both agencies and I have never gotten that "consensus".  Were poor decisions made that day?  Perhaps.  Are poor decisions made on every fire?  Probably.  I know how hard Management Teams work to insure that our firefighters are provided with all of the information and tools they need to make good decisions.  Does it happen in the initial attack mode?  Hardly ever.  I can only think of the less then perfect decisions I made over the years in tactical situations.  Hindsight is always a heck of a lot easier around the coffee pot.

Point was that if you read the OSHA report and take it as gospel,  all initial attack should pretty much come to a stop because it is not safe.  They are citing the Forest Service for having an "unsafe working environment" while engaged in firefighting.   These are OSHA safety experts, not firefighters.  They can't tell the difference between the 10 & the 18.  They use the word, "turnouts", a back East term for structure firefighting gear for PPE.  Given their logic, all structure fire fighting should cease until we can get a map of the interior of the burning home and what dangerous substances might be burning or whether the person we are treating has a contagious disease.  Yeah, OSHA sticks in my craw.

I'm not saying OSHA is right,(I realize they are often clueless with regards to knowledge of our, and other agencies' detailed practices) I'm just relaying what I've heard and seen while working for the USFS. However, I've also seen excerpts from USFS investigative reports.. which don't look too good on our end either.

[Freighthauler]

Put the blame where the blame belongs....the asswipe arsonist.

Thank you firefighters and God bless you guys.

[SkierBob]

This thread should be a lot more active then it is.....

Leave it to OSHA to mess with legitimate agencies and businesses when they should be going after the unsafe construction sites where a language barrier between English and Spanish creates an incredibly dangerous working condition. 

Hey look out,,, oops. Sorry for smashing your head with that load of bricks Pedro.  I said "hey look out".

It's pretty obvious that they are aware of the language barrier or their own offices wouldn't be bilingual.

I'd laugh my ass off if their offices caught on fire and the fire department responded only to say "Sorry it's to dangerous".

[superMom]

Quote by SkierBob
"This thread should be a lot more active then it is....."

I for one feel sorry that OSHA felt the need to state what they did in this report.  It makes me very sad that the firefighters are being hit while they are already down from the loss of so many of their own.  The OSHA report is just wrong.  Thank you ALL firefighters, I am awed by your ability to fight any kind of fire that comes your way, and to put your lives at risk each and every time you go out on a call.  We are honored by your service!

[clint]

Well I realize this is very emotional issue, but to say that OSHA got it all wrong may be wrong too.

As one who has actually served on fire ground my read is that mistakes were made.

If crews disobeyed direct orders from a branch commander there is a problem.
If crews knowingly had fire down slope below them, there is a big problem. One of the very first thing I was taught was that you never, ever get in a position where fire is below you. Period. If ordered to do so, you ignore that order. If no look outs were posted that was a huge mistake.

Some of the items do seem to come from a lack of understanding of wildland firefighting.

This structure was not occupied by residents. And no structure is ever worth a single firefilghters life. So was it appropriate to be defending a structure in those conditions?

On problem lies in the ten standard fire fighting orders. What used to be nuumber 10 is now first.

Fight fire aggressively but provide for safety first. This as always been a contradiction.

And it strikes me how similar the items listed here by OSHA are to the problems that caused the loss of 13 firefighters in Mann Gulch in '49 and 14 firefighters on Storm King Mountain in '94. Extreme weather and fire behavior, erratic winds, and to some degree - although we hate to admit it- over confidence and overly aggressive firefighting.

www.wffoundation.org

[Wildman]

Clint-
Here is what the Forest Service said in today's Bulletin:

The U.S. Forest Service plans to appeal violations outlined in a federal safety investigative report that placed the blame on fire officials in October's fatal Esperanza Fire.

Forest Service officials said the findings released by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration - part of the U.S. Department of Labor - won't affect their own plan, released in May."The Forest Service stands by our action plan," said Allison Stewart, national spokeswoman for the U.S. Forest Service. "OSHA's notice and citation plan won't make us change our process on the action plan."

Stewart says the Forest Service intends to request an informal meeting to negotiate the violations with OSHA before the Aug.13 deadline OSHA set to have the violations corrected.

OSHA's report, released Thursday, said firefighters weren't briefed on the status of the blaze and weather conditions, didn't obey a commander's orders to relocate to a safer area and didn't wear heavy protective "turn out" equipment, among other violations. The violations occurred before the burnover that killed five firefighters in the blaze.
The Forest Service's Accident Review Board Action Plan outlined seven recommendations it plans to complete between July 31 and March. Among the recommendations, fire officials plan to integrate lessons learned from the Esperanza Fire into various procedures.

"We all have the same goals. None of us want to have any fatalities on any of our incidents in the future," Stewart said.

The 40,200-acre Esperanza Fire also destroyed 34 homes and 20 outbuildings. Killed were Capt. Mark Loutzenhiser, 44, of Idyllwild and firefighters Pablo Cerda, 23, of Fountain Valley; Jess McLean, 27, of Beaumont; Jason McKay, 27, of Phelan and Daniel Hoover-Najera, 20, of San Jacinto.

OSHA spokesman Roger Gayman said the informal meeting the Forest Service plans to request will hopefully help the two agencies reach an agreement to prevent deaths in future fires.

He said the Aug. 13 deadline is flexible and fire officials can petition to have OSHA's orders modified.

"They need to give the reasons why and the interim steps they're taking to protect workers," Gayman said.

[RobertW]

Cal OSHA is a laughing stock in the Grocery industry.  According to them, none of us should experience being born as there is too much risk!  While the concept is good, it is nothing more than a political machine that forces upon people the whims of certain political entities.

Enough said....

[Wildman]

This was posted on a wildland firefighter forum this evening.  Pretty much sums up my feelings also.

OSHA vs. Forest Service
To hunt.connie@dol.gov (director of region 9 OSHA)

Mrs. Hunt (Region 9 OSHA director),

Do you believe that the report you're signing your name to is true?
Do you believe that if the young men had been wearing their turnouts that these men would have gone home safely? (Wearing turnouts is not policy during a wild land incident.)
What you are saying is that the Forest Service did wrong.
What you are claiming is needed to fix the situation will not work.

If you want to see all federal support of wild land fires stop, then ok.
When it stops, you can write all the people that will lose their homes, all of the people that will lose their land, and the timber destroyed will be the result of your report's findings.

What we do as wild land Firefighters is dangerous, it is war.
Do you expect all of your soldiers to come back from war every time?
Well, as much as it pains me, we will occasionally lose good people.
It is a dynamic world out there and sometimes stepping foot outdoors can harm you.

Would you stop structural firefighters from going into a house because it's dangerous?
"Well, they knew the roof was on fire and they went in and the roof collapsed."
Does that mean that from now on they can't enter a building to pull your loved ones out 'cause the roof is on fire?

You need to understand the implications of what you are saying.
You need to stop what you are doing and read what you are saying, talk to the families and the people close to the fire.
We can try and make firefighting safer, but your effort to enforce by 8/13 is insane.

If we stop fighting fires and people die from the uncontained spread of forest fires and towns are burned due to the fact we cant engage because OSHA said firefighting was dangerous, what will your follow-up report say then?
If you prevent us from fighting fire, every life, every house and every dream destroyed will be on your head:
when all is said and done, then we can write a report saying why we were not allowed to engage the fire.

"Sorry your family died, but OSHA said we cant fight fire at night."
"Sorry you lost your house, but OSHA said we cant try and protect it if there is vegetation between it and the fire."
"Sorry your town is gone, but OSHA said we cant engage a fire if the weather is getting hotter and dryer."

This report and your agency are a joke.
You have lost touch with the real world and when the backlash comes, I hope it is severe.

Federal Wildland Firefighter,
Good friend and Co-worker of the men that died on Esperanza,
and a concerned citizen

[FSfirefighter]

Clint,

Thank you for your link to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation.

As far as the OSHA report is concerned, please realize that as an ex-firefighter with obviously minimal experience, you have more training and experience as an entrapment investigator than OSHA does. Unfortunately, your observations and suppositions, like theirs, are not based on the facts of the entrapment nor the complexities involved.