Author Topic: San Andreas Fault Maps  (Read 35612 times)

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Cigar_and_Scotch

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San Andreas Fault Maps
« on: Feb 03, 15, 05:05:58 PM »
All,

I've been looking at several different online resources to find a detailed trace of the San Andreas Fault going through Wrightwood.  There are, unfortunately, discrepancies when one compares these maps, so it is difficult to know with confidence precisely where the fault line is.

The one that most folks are familiar with is http://geology.com/san-andreas-fault/.  This seems to have rather low fidelity, given that the line is just a straight-line trace between a few known points of the fault, which are miles apart.

The CIT map http://scedc.caltech.edu/significant/ may be an improvement, and it seems to place the fault slightly more northward than the other maps.

The CA Geological survey has a non-interactive map here:  http://gmw.consrv.ca.gov/shmp/download/quad/MOUNT_SAN_ANTONIO/maps/MT_SANANTONIO.PDF and http://gmw.consrv.ca.gov/shmp/download/quad/TELEGRAPH_PEAK/maps/TELEGRF_PK.PDF.  It has significant gaps on its trace, and appears to be based on aerial observation.

Does anyone out there know of other maps I could consult that would provide a street-level detailed trace of the fault?

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #1 on: Feb 03, 15, 05:33:40 PM »
I don't think you really can define a specific line on the ground as there are so many variables invloved.

Here's a map you can zoom: http://www.thulescientific.com/san-andreas-fault-map.html

A couple of interesting images I found:




Offline RobertW

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #2 on: Feb 05, 15, 11:36:09 AM »
I don't think you really can define a specific line on the ground as there are so many variables invloved.

Here's a map you can zoom: http://www.thulescientific.com/san-andreas-fault-map.html

I can say with pretty high confidence that the above map is VERY accurate for the portion of the line that goes through Robin Circle between Spruce and Acorn.  Our property was bought in 1940 and from the geology and geological events that have taken place over the decades I truly believe the line goes right through the South side of the middle of the circle.  We had a surveyor or a geologist back in the early 60's tell us that the fault ran right along the back of our property and that we were in the "grey" zone.  Not sure how he knew that or where he got that information. Mind you a fault line is not a line per say but can be hundreds of feet wide. 

Robin Circle is shown as being mostly a sag pond or lake, similar to Wright's Lake but smaller, on the maps of the 1920's. (Sag ponds are obvious signs of the fault, such as Lost Lake, Twin Lakes, Robin Circle, Wright's Lake, Jackson Lake, etc.) Growing up in the 60's, the West side of the center of the circle always had a running spring, creating a marsh with standing water where we would spend hours catching pollywogs and frogs.

In heavy winters or water years during the Spring and Summer, a lot of springs would popup on the South Road of the circle along a visible line and they had to be diverted between the cabins, including ours, located off the North Road of the circle, indicating to me we were on solid Rock and you could see the physical fissure, per say running through the Circle.  At least that is my observations.   

Offline ad astra

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #3 on: Feb 05, 15, 07:37:49 PM »
That is a very cool link! I like the fact that the map is "zoomable", so you can see the big picture or look at the details.

As for the section around Robin Circle, I always thought the sharp drop in elevation between Oriole and the upper part of Robin Circle was the fault scarp. Just an educated guess - I taught Earth and Space Science, but astronomy was my strong subject; geology was secondary.

Offline RobertW

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #4 on: Feb 06, 15, 07:15:34 AM »
Quote
As for the section around Robin Circle, I always thought the sharp drop in elevation between Oriole and the upper part of Robin Circle was the fault scarp. Just an educated guess - I taught Earth and Space Science, but astronomy was my strong subject; geology was secondary.

I'd say that is a very good guess.   ;D

Cigar_and_Scotch

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #5 on: Feb 06, 15, 09:44:39 AM »
Since I am looking for a property to do house construction, my concern is not whether or not I am near the fault.  Everyone in Wrightwood is "near" the fault.  I just don't want to be ON the fault, so that when the Big One hits half of my house travels 20 feet north while the other half goes 20 feet south, shearing it in half.  The Big One aside, I don't want any of the slower geologic problems to strike that will fundamentally compromise the foundation over time. 

Offline tcaarabians

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #6 on: Feb 06, 15, 10:00:19 AM »
I am incapable of reading these maps and knowing what streets they relate to on the maps. That said, Cigar&Scotch.. I suggest you make the purchase of the land contingent on being able to acquire earthquake insurance for a structure.  Frankly, I'd be more concerned about the water table.  Oh good, more maps!! And, WW's water table evidently hasn't been mapped in decades.
cheryl o7o

sharyn

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #7 on: Feb 06, 15, 10:47:01 AM »
When you build part of the required geological permits will include mapping fault lines and water table.  For the fault they dig down 6 or 10 feet.  Not sure how far for the water.  I suggest contacting a geologist.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #8 on: Feb 06, 15, 11:03:51 AM »
The zoomable map is highly accurate in the area of Oak and Linnet as a geological study with trenching took place in the early '90's

Offline KW

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #9 on: Feb 06, 15, 12:23:13 PM »
So can someone help us 'map-challenged' folks and put an overlay of the Wrightwood street map on this one, or at least tell me that line #whatever is near the intersection of whatever street? Then I could get my bearings and maybe understand what I'm looking at in relation to my house. Thanks!!

Cigar_and_Scotch

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #10 on: Feb 06, 15, 12:36:23 PM »
I don't know about water table maps, although the relevant FEMA flood maps are here:

http://map1.msc.fema.gov/idms/IntraView.cgi?KEY=54614858&IFIT=1
http://map1.msc.fema.gov/idms/IntraView.cgi?KEY=54618418&IFIT=1

These maps appear to be quite old, although they are the "official" maps. 

I would not get earthquake insurance.  The annual premium and deductible are quite high.

Offline TimG

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #11 on: Feb 06, 15, 01:31:48 PM »
KW: I'm usually good with maps, but I'm having trouble reading them, too -- I don't know what area I'm looking at. What's that "access road"? Or where exactly is Government Canyon? I'm lost on there.

C-n-S: I decided not to get earthquake insurance for now, as well. I looked at some detailed reports after the Northridge quake, and even with one of the highest ground-accelerations ever recorded, it was only a very small percentage of houses that had more damage than the very high deductibles. It's a calculated risk, depending on your financial situation -- I'm going to take it out once we have about 50% equity on the mortgage.

Cigar_and_Scotch

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #12 on: Feb 06, 15, 01:48:34 PM »
TimG, depending on your circumstances the risk might be very low or negligible. 

Even very high ground accelerations for modern buildings are a walk in the park (Northridge was 1.8 G's, that is not difficult to design a structure for).  The codes are very conservative and the construction technique and technologies have come a long way.  If I can pull off what I envision (albeit, a big if) I will be in a red iron steel frame house with pier and beam foundation.  So even strong rocking and rolling will not worry me in the least, and insurance for that would just be a waste.  I just don't want the ground on one part of my property to go one way while the other side of the property goes in the opposite lateral direction.

Offline KW

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #13 on: Feb 06, 15, 03:10:21 PM »
My brother was in the Northridge quake. He lost his fireplace, everything out of the kitchen cabinets, all the stone from the front of the house, the block wall around the house and had some cracks in the walls. He more than met the deductible, and was happy he had insurance. One of the benefits was that someone was there almost immediately and he was able to get contractors to do the work quicker and get back into his home faster. He also had coverage for 'loss of use' and they rented a motor home to park on the street for a month while repairs were being made.

I still carry earthquake insurance, but every time I get the bill I question if I still need it.

Cigar_and_Scotch

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #14 on: Feb 06, 15, 03:30:11 PM »
KW, methinks the lesson there is a lesson everyone should have learned a long time ago - don't build structures out of un-reinforced masonry.   Bad, bad, bad.  In fact, if you can avoid it, don't use masonry for primary structure -  veneer only.

Offline TimG

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #15 on: Feb 06, 15, 07:55:10 PM »
Ground conditions matter a lot, too. If we were in the blue zone I'd probably get the insurance.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #16 on: Feb 06, 15, 08:36:16 PM »
From the West side of town to the East. (based on this map: http://www.thulescientific.com/san-andreas-fault-map.html)










Offline Wrightwood

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #17 on: Feb 06, 15, 08:39:57 PM »
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Offline tcaarabians

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Re: San Andreas Fault Maps
« Reply #18 on: Feb 07, 15, 07:50:57 AM »
Now that's a map I can read. Thank you for posting it.  It looks like the fault goes through Lone Pine and continues east. Please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

I was living in Venice during the Northridge quake. I thought the whole place was going to collapse around me. I had friends in Santa Monica who were red-tagged. There's a very high water table in both locations so the shaking was pronounced.

FYI - My earthquake premium on $500k for the structure and $300k for contents is $1484. I pay an additional premium on the barn of a few hundred dollars. Total premium for everything is $4084. To me - it's worth it. I carry a high-deductible and basically insure for major loss. Though, you made some good points C&S.

C&S: I don't know if the maps you linked to for flood are the new ones or not. I do know that Congressman Cook's newsletter links to the new maps. Good luck trying to read them.   cheryl o7o

SoCalGal

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map lines
« Reply #19 on: Feb 13, 15, 02:06:13 PM »
Keep in mind:  a fault, especially a huge regional fault like the San Andreas or San Jacinto, is not really just one line in most parts.  The fault trace - the fault as it's mapped at ground surface -  frequently gets a "braided" appearance from parallel smaller faults that meet and split, and cross, and meet again, but because they are so much smaller in length and have the same direction of movement as the "main" fault, they aren't usually recognized on their own.  At ground surface above such an area, there may not be the nice split where one side slid one way, and the other side slid to the opposite direction - there could just be an acre, or a few, where the dirt looks so torn up you might mistake it for human-dug dirt piles.  Places like that look just like ordinary fields after a few thousand years - that's why in many areas, a mapped fault line appears to just "stop".  It's under there someplace but no one has had the money or time to dig and see.  Water also tends to run along faulted areas, because the rock and dirt is soft and torn up; that also hides the fault evidence.  We had a whole course on how fault areas make wonderful-looking places that humans tend to move into and live in - it was an interesting book.

Just because a map has a line - well, that may be the main direction of movement, but faults often reach thousands of feet deep, and are angled out of the vertical, and may very well have one or more split-off 'faultlets' as described above - unless a map is from an agency like USGS that has set standards for how they will depict a fault, it can be really chancy relying on a fault map made by lesser-known makers.  A line can be a surface trace, or the average of recorded movement in trenches or by seismometers, or based on disturbed dirt; unless there is "metadata" - background info on how, when, and by whom the data was collected, and how it was processed and/or mapped and by whom - it can be tricky to judge if one map is as good as another.  Personally I'd say that an iron framed house ought to be OK unless it's on an entire slope that slides; otherwise I think it could be lifted by jacks and replanted!  Really all I mean to say is, take any map with a grain of salt - they all have their limits.  And I work on maps for my living.

Disclaimer:  majored in geology at UCR, but never became a professional geologist;  I would never claim to be an expert but we did study this stuff.  And as for dates of mapping - a really amazing amount of work is done inconspicuously by grad students each year, as well as by professionals; trenching, searching out faulted areas in visible surface rock, soil sampling, study of airphotos and radar surface maps, all go on all the time, unknown to most.  Just because no one has spotted a geologist lately doesn't mean they haven't been there unnoticed.

The above are all cool maps though.  But there sure is a lot of moveable ground in the Wrightwood valleys.

 

anything