Jackson Lake rescue & body recovery

[Bob C]

Channel 7 aired their report about this incident today (in the 4 o'clock hour.. not sure if they'll repeat it).

They had a reporter at Jackson Lake. Nothing really new was disclosed in the report, but they managed to get some excellent video. They had video of the "scene", and all the tubes and sleds left on the lake. While the news crew was there shooting the report, they stumbled across about 6 idiot teenagers, walking on the ice. One of them broke thru, up to above his ankles. The video of that, was pretty entertaining. It makes ones eyes roll.

[Elk]

I just drove by Jackson Lake twice in the last hour . The first time I drove by I found a kid about 12 yrs old on the ice about 5 feet from the hole where the gentleman fell through and died. I took the liberty of stopping and informing the kid about the man who just fell in and died. I asked him if he thought it was a wise choice to be on the ice. I then got back in the truck to leave. As I was getting ready to leave I noticed the kid getting even closer to the previously broken area and I also saw his father talking to him from the otherside of the lake, also standing on the ice. I got out of the truck again after seeing the parent and informed the parent of the earlier tragedy. The parent had no real reply. I believe the parent had instructed the kid to get the innertube which had been on the ice since the incident. The kid proceded to go and get the innertube and get even closer to the weak area.

On behalf of all sane people I did inform the adult of my nominating him for "parent of the year".

I guess the kids life is not worth the extra $5. (The approx. cost of an innertube)

About 15-20 minutes later when I passed by again there was an entire family, 6-10 people on the ice on the opposite side. When I went to tell this family of the dangers a news crew from FOX 11 was there videoing them as they walked on the ice. When I told the family of the prior events they seemed not to believe me until I pointed out to them that a news crew was present and taping them. Then they seemed to believe me a little bit more!

You need a license to drive... but not to parent!

[Bob C]

...I got out of the truck again after seeing the parent and informed the parent of the earlier tragedy. The parent had no real reply.

Maybe they just don't understand what you're saying. Maybe its too complicated for them to comprehend. Next time this happens, just yell "Run Forest, Run!"

[Chesslike]

Here is the ABC story and video:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=5858489

[Sagebrush]

I just drove by Jackson Lake twice in the last hour . The first time I drove by I found a kid about 12 yrs old on the ice about 5 feet from the hole where the gentleman fell through and died. I took the liberty of stopping and informing the kid about the man who just fell in and died. I asked him if he thought it was a wise choice to be on the ice. I then got back in the truck to leave. As I was getting ready to leave I noticed the kid getting even closer to the previously broken area and I also saw his father talking to him from the otherside of the lake, also standing on the ice. I got out of the truck again after seeing the parent and informed the parent of the earlier tragedy. The parent had no real reply. I believe the parent had instructed the kid to get the innertube which had been on the ice since the incident. The kid proceded to go and get the innertube and get even closer to the weak area.

On behalf of all sane people I did inform the adult of my nominating him for "parent of the year".

I guess the kids life is not worth the extra $5. (The approx. cost of an innertube)

About 15-20 minutes later when I passed by again there was an entire family, 6-10 people on the ice on the opposite side. When I went to tell this family of the dangers a news crew from FOX 11 was there videoing them as they walked on the ice. When I told the family of the prior events they seemed not to believe me until I pointed out to them that a news crew was present and taping them. Then they seemed to believe me a little bit more!

You need a license to drive... but not to parent!

Thats unbelievable!! No matter how many signs we put up or how many verbal warnings they might receive this will continue to happen. I hope these parents who are brave enough to walk on thin ice are brave enough to try and save their kids when they fall through!!

I was raised in Long Beach with no real knowledge of ice and/or snow and I would never even think to try something like this. Do people think this is a frozen lake in Michigan? Its just crazy to me..

[Hillbillies]

Thanks for posting the link BB.

And that story from Elk, like Sagebrush said, is unbelievable!  I

[smartpatrol]

Why do some people fail to grasp the concept that it does not get cold enough here to freeze large bodies of water?   

I'd never walk on a lake unless I was somewhere that's been below freezing for WEEKS.  Even then, I'd stay close to the edges, just in case.

Has common sense gone the way of the dodo bird? 

[Breezymtns]

...commonsense isn't very common anymore...

[SkierBob]

As long as the lake remains frozen we will continue to see Darwin's theory played out on the ice.   Regardless if people read the signs or not.  The signs need to be posted around the entire lake.  I didn't see any signs when I stopped by last night.   

With the forest service so quick to make 'forest closed' signs during extreme fire conditions,, they should get their butts out and install signs every 20ft around the lake.  Until this is done, the USFS hasn't done all they can to avoid having another person fall through the ice.  Additional signs will save a lives, they should be installed immediately.

[Tomas]

I counted the signs yesterday. They are green with white writing in English and Spanish and a silhouette in broken ice.They read Danger thin ice/ Peligro Helio Fino (this is actually a better translation than the old signs had.) The word "Danger" is highlighted in red. There are at least 7 that I saw. 3 in the parking lot and 4 on the highway side at common points of entry.  Apparently that is not enough to keep people off the ice.

The signs are mounted to the post with cone like nuts that can't be removed with a normal wrench. But the sign post is locked in the sleeve with a regular nut and carriage bolt. There used to be more signs. It looks like people realized they could remove the the entire post from its sleeve and stole a few.

Channels 7 and 11 both aired reports yesterday regarding the death. Hopefully that helps keep people off the ice.

[Breezymtns]

Signs every 20 ft would be a total waste of money.  They would be ripped out of the ground... used for sledding... used to aide in telling sheriffs, F.S. employees lies that they didn't see any signs.  Although, once in awhile you get the visitor who will say "what signs???  I didn't see any signs" as they are standing right infront of the sign you mention to them.  I happen to know first-hand from my experience in the Big Pines Recreation Area that "I didn't see any signs!" is one of the first things that come to a person's mind whom regularly tries to work the system (I am talking any & all systems).  It is quite a pathetic excuse if you ask me.  

What will people with all these "ideas" ask next???  We should hire fulltime babysitters to stand guard over the lake 24/7 in the wintertime?   Oh, well how about just drain the lake?  Fence all around the lake?  They will just climb over the fence.  If you make laws many people will break them... if you put up barriers people will get around them...  if there is a will there is a way.

Give me a break... it is time that people start being accountable for their own actions.  People die everyday, all day.  It is their own choice to make sound or unsound judgements.  I believe they should also be held accountable for their unsound judgements.  The persons whom fall through the ice should be charged for their rescue efforts.  Just like they have begun to do when skiiers & snowboarders go out of bounds at Mtn High.  As I stated previously the parents should be cited & held accountable when minor children fall through or go out onto the thin ice.  

We go through this every winter... hundreds of people on thin ice, people trespassing, people killing or seriously injuring themselves sledding or skiing into trees, cars, over cliffs...  driving up without chains & crashing their vehicles... breaking through locked gates...  illegal parking... hindering emergency vehicle traffic... leaving everything they brought to the forest littered everywhere... graffiti everywhere, etc.  The impact the Angeles Forest has from such a huge population base is one key factor.  How can 2 or 3 people manage 1,000's & 1,000's of knuckle heads?  Every new winter we have an instant replay of the winter before.

[RobertW]

Signs every 20 ft would be a total waste of money.  ...once in awhile you get the visitor who will say "what signs???  I didn't see any signs" as they are standing right infront of the sign you mention to them.  ...in the Big Pines Recreation Area that "I didn't see any signs!" is one of the first things that come to a person's mind whom regularly tries to work the system.

"What do you mean I need an Adventure Pass?  I didn't see any sign?"



We need to put up signs around Jackson saying they can't park in the Lake!



How about signs every 20 ft. warning the people about the dangers of driving too fast on icy roads

[Leftfield]

A sign every 20ft would be a waste...yet it wasnt a knucklehead who drown...

[Sagebrush]

Signs every 20 ft would be a total waste of money.  They would be ripped out of the ground... used for sledding... used to aide in telling sheriffs, F.S. employees lies that they didn't see any signs.  Although, once in awhile you get the visitor who will say "what signs???  I didn't see any signs" as they are standing right infront of the sign you mention to them.  I happen to know first-hand from my experience in the Big Pines Recreation Area that "I didn't see any signs!" is one of the first things that come to a person's mind whom regularly tries to work the system (I am talking any & all systems).  It is quite a pathetic excuse if you ask me. 

What will people with all these "ideas" ask next???  We should hire fulltime babysitters to stand guard over the lake 24/7 in the wintertime?   Oh, well how about just drain the lake?  Fence all around the lake?  They will just climb over the fence.  If you make laws many people will break them... if you put up barriers people will get around them...  if there is a will there is a way.

Give me a break... it is time that people start being accountable for their own actions.  People die everyday, all day.  It is their own choice to make sound or unsound judgements.  I believe they should also be held accountable for their unsound judgements.  The persons whom fall through the ice should be charged for their rescue efforts.  Just like they have begun to do when skiiers & snowboarders go out of bounds at Mtn High.  As I stated previously the parents should be cited & held accountable when minor children fall through or go out onto the thin ice. 

We go through this every winter... hundreds of people on thin ice, people trespassing, people killing or seriously injuring themselves sledding or skiing into trees, cars, over cliffs...  driving up without chains & crashing their vehicles... breaking through locked gates...  illegal parking... hindering emergency vehicle traffic... leaving everything they brought to the forest littered everywhere... graffiti everywhere, etc.  The impact the Angeles Forest has from such a huge population base is one key factor.  How can 2 or 3 people manage 1,000's & 1,000's of knuckle heads?  Every new winter we have an instant replay of the winter before.

Yeah what she said!!! I agree with that 100%!! A perfect example of people not willing to listen is Elk's story where he personally told a family of the tragedy that had just happened and they completely blew him off. No matter how many signs, no matter how many warnings people will do what they want to do. Unless we hire a year round lifeguard for the lake it will most definitely happen again!!! (Which by the way I dont want to pay for)!!

People do need to be held accountable for their actions and stop blaming lack of signs. The biggest tragedy in this case is that the man who died, died because of other peoples stupidity and thats really sad.

[Hillbillies]

Signs - Jackson Lake version

 
And the sign said flat lander freaky people need to stay off the ice
But they grabbed all of their sled gear anyways and they headed out on to the ice
They played all day with out a care paying no attention to the signs that said beware
Someone fell through and when they finally pulled them out they were dead and blue

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, CAN'T YOU READ THE SIGN.....


The original old song redone here in 1990 by the band Tesla.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic90R6ZNaIM&feature=related

[Breezymtns]

   I love your remake there Hillbilly 

[SkierBob]

A sign every 20ft would be a waste...yet it wasnt a knucklehead who drown...

It's not a waste if my tax dollars are paying USFS personal anyway, and it's absolutely not a waste if it saves just one life.  Who knows,,, might even save the child of someone you.

 

[Kaikapu]

Jackson Lake is but "one" of the many places of beauty and joy up here.  It is so sad to think that to some it has become a place of death and stupid behavior.

There is such good information on this forum, I only wish that some of the readers were the idiots being mentioned on the various topic sites.  If the local newspapers would publish a section like the sections listing "fires" and or "police calls"  and call it something like "Morons on the Mountain", then, maybe then, these people would see themselves the way we do.  I'm not trying to judge them, but the truth of the matter is that there are those that may not realize the errors of their ways.  They've been raised by dysfunctional parents and their actions are completely normal to them.

My deepest sympathies to the wife and family that lost her beloved husband and their father.  May their grieving be brief and their joy be replenished and renewed by his memory.


   

[ChattyCathy]

I have a little better understanding of Jackson Lake, as I checked it out today.  The ice is VERY inviting.  It looks very harmless, and the lake is small enough that it does not look like it could be very deep. 

Obviously we know better now, but I can ALMOST understand how people walked on it without giving it much thought.  As we all know, this type of situation DOES require much, much thought.

What I totally do not understand is that even when I told people about the death on Christmas day, people walked on the ice anyway.  This is what I do not understand.  One person I talked to who fishes there often told a similar story as Elk, that a father had his 5-6 yr old son walk on the ice to retrieve a sled, even after the father had been told that someone died five feet from where his son was standing.  The guy still had his son continue onward to get the sled.     !!!!

[Wrightwood]

What Cathy didn't mention is that she was a volunteer Ham Radio Operator who was on Ice Watch today. The Wrightwood Communications Group (WCG) organized a group of Ham Radio Operators, for the long New Years weekend, to stand watch and warn people of the thin ice danger. The WCG also has monitoring taking place in case anyone does go in, so rescue crews can be dispatched ASAP.

Ham Radio Ice Watch volunteers are stationed at Jackson Lake from 9am to 5pm, 12-29-07 thru 1-1-08