Vegetation Fire - Barton Flats - Jenks Lake

[SkierBob]

The biggest danger is called FOD, which stands for Foreign Object Debris/Destruction.

Think of a bug hitting your windshield at 60 MPH.  Now think of a small drone or UAV, 3-6 feet across (with the associated greater mass and weight), hitting an airplane or helicopter at 100-300 MPH, while they are trying to do a water or retardant drop.

IF the pilot of the helicopter or aircraft is lucky, they will be able to set their vehicle down on the ground.  If they are not lucky, destruction ensues.

Drones don't belong in fire zones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/near-collisions-between-drones-airliners-surge-new-faa-reports-show/2014/11/26/9a8c1716-758c-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html

BTW, the online video of a drone hitting a Southwest Airlines plane, is faked.  Yes, damage like that could occur, but that particular video is a simulation.

If a  bird can take down a passenger plane, a drone strike could take down anyone of the aircraft fighting the fire.  It was a goose or two into the engines of US Airways Flight 1549 that put that aircraft in the Hudson River. 

[ezzpete]

It should be noted that a drone could be flown by anyone and not necessarily a hobbyist as suggested at the news conference.
The drone could be flown by the DEA looking for pot grows, it could have been a news team, local - State or Federal government agency, foreign government or a hundred other possibilities.
 

I'm guessing it wasn't a hobbyist, since one of them was 11K feet up. Can hobby drones even go that high? That was one of them, I haven't heard much about the second one.

[Wrightwood]

There was some confusion when I listened to the press conference. I'm fairly certain the USFS spokesman said 11K feet up he was refereeing to feet above sea level. Later in the press conference he said it was 800-1,000 feet above the ground and pointed out that hobbyist must stay below 400 feet above the ground.

[RennMan]

If a  bird can take down a passenger plane, a drone strike could take down anyone of the aircraft fighting the fire.  It was a goose or two into the engines of US Airways Flight 1549 that put that aircraft in the Hudson River.

That's exactly right.  Most commercial aircraft can withstand a birdstrike or ingesting a bird through an engine, and keep flying. US Airways 1549 was multiple geese, into both engines at the same time.  The worst possible scenario, and Sully did exactly what he should have done.

[Wrightwood]

Per air attack radio traffic: they expect fire to run thru the Antelope (Creek) drainage tonight.

Antelope Creek is north of Onyx Peak.

[Wrightwood]

[Wrightwood]

INCIDENT UPDATED 1 MIN. AGO

 Update: The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department has issued a message in order to give residents in the areas of Lake Williams, Erwin Lake, and Lake Baldwin advance noticed to prepare for evacuation, in the event it becomes necessary. As of 8:00 am today the Lake Fire is approximately 1.5 miles east of the first trigger point that affects Lake Williams. If the Lake Fire reaches the pre-designated trigger points, residents in these areas will be notified to evacuate. Residents in the affected areas, particularly those with live stock that may need to be moved, are encouraged to make arrangements now for relocation of their animals.

The Lake Fire was reported just before 4:00 pm on June 17, 2015. The cause of the fire is under investigation. It is approximately 23,199 acres in size and burning in timber. It is currently 21% contained.

Mandatory evacuations include: Areas along Hwy 38 east of Angelus Oaks to Onyx Summit, Barton Flats, Seven Oaks, South Fork, Heart Bar, Rainbow Lane, Burns Canyon, and Rimrock. There is a voluntary evacuation in place for Pioneertown. There is a shelter for evacuees at Copper Mountain College located at 6162 Rotary Way, in Joshua Tree, CA 92252. Small animals may be taken to the Town of Yucca Valley Animal Shelter 4755 Malin Way Yucca Valley. Large animals may be taken to the Yucca Valley Equestrian Center 7429 Avalon Ave. Yucca Valley.

State Highway 38 is closed between Angelus Oaks to Lake Williams. It will remain closed indefinitely due to reduced visibility and firefighting operations

All Hiking Trails into the San Gorgonio Wilderness Area have been closed due to the proximity of the fire to these trails. The Pacific Crest Trail (PCT) is closed from Whitewater Preserve to Onyx Summit.

The fire remains active in the northeast. Yesterday the fire made a push northwards toward the Rainbow Lane Area but at this time no structures have been lost.

The south side of the fire continues to burn in steep and rocky terrain with minor growth downhill hitting areas of unburned trees and grass that ignite and then burn again downhill. Additional crews have been inserted into the Ten Thousand Foot Ridge and will proceed toward the eastern Forest Boundary.

Resources on scene include:
103 engines
4 air tankers
2 DC-10 VLAT (Very Large Air Tankers)
18 helicopters
4 support planes
54 crews
16 water tenders
8 dozers
1894 personnel assigned to the fire

There have been four firefighter injuries.

Fire management is under Unified Command with Cal Fire, San Bernardino County Sheriff, San Bernardino County Fire, Big Bear Fire Department and California Highway Patrol. The Incident Command Post is located at Big Bear High School.

There are Smoke Advisories for nearby areas. Click here for the San Bernardino Mountains smoke information and click here for the Mojave Desert area smoke information

Ben's Weather Webcam has updated images of the fire area every 30 seconds

Basic Information
Current as of   6/25/2015, 9:41:45 AM
Incident Type   Wildfire
Cause   Under Investigation
Date of Origin   Wednesday June 17th, 2015 approx. 03:52 PM
Incident Commander   Walker
Incident Description   Yesterday The Northeast Corner Of The Fire Made A Push Northward Into The Rainbow Lane Area But At This Time No Structures Have Been Lost. Last Night The Fire Grew Northwards Towards The Upper Pipes Canyon Area.
Current Situation
Total Personnel   1,894
Size   23,199 Acres
Percent of Perimeter Contained   21%
Fuels Involved   

Timber with Grass and Understory
Significant Events   

The communities of Burns Canyon and Rim Rock are under a mandatory evacuation. Pioneertown is under a voluntary evacuation. Advanced notice was given to residents of Lake Williams, Erwin Lake, and Lake Baldwin to prepare for evacuation, in the event it becomes necessary. Hwy 38 remains closed from east of Angelus Oaks to Lake Williams.
Outlook
Planned Actions   

Continue to hold the fire south and east of Hwy 38 and North of Whitewater.
Remarks   

A Type 2 Incident Management Team is in command of the fire
Current Weather
Weather Concerns   

Weather will remain warm and dry over the fire with gusty west winds over the next few days. Temperatures will slowly cool over next several days with an increase in relative humidity. Possibility of monsoonal moisture for the weekend.

[Wrightwood]

SB County Fire ?@SBCOUNTYFIRE 18 seconds ago

#LakeFire evening update 25,599 acres, 19% contained

[RennMan]

Driving up from Pomona/Walnut tonight, there is a lot of drift smoke over the Inland Empire.  Tough to tell if it is from the Lake incident, or the Sterling incident, but I wouldn't be surprised to see drift smoke in our mountains, and certainly in the Victor Valley...

[Wrightwood]

[Joe Schmoe]

Can someone help me understand how this got away from firefighters?  It seems like people saw the smoke early and in the time lapse, if you frame by frame step though it you can see the early retardant drops before it was big.  It was also in a somewhat accessible area with paved roads nearby.  So, what happened?  Or what didn't happen?  Or was this a scenario where there was no chance to put it out regardless of cash outlay or personnel/vehicle placement?

The timing and location of it all sure seems intentional.

[Wrightwood]

THU JUN 25 5:21 PM
SCANNER TRAFFIC OVER THE PAST FEW HOURS HAS BEEN LARGELY EFFORTS TO BUILD CONTAINMENT LINES BETWEEN THE BIG BEAR VALLEY AND THE FIRE. SOUNDS LIKE FIREFIGHTERS ARE USING EVERYTHING THEY HAVE IN THEIR ARSENAL: DOZERS, HAND CREWS, AIRCRAFT, AND EVEN BACKFIRING OPERATIONS.
SOURCE: SCANNER  REPORTER:SCMALERT 

http://socalmountains.com/incident/index.php?i=35741

[Wrightwood]

Southern California Interagency
Incident Management Team 1
Lake Fire Update June 25, 2015
8:00 PM

Acres Burned: 25,599
Containment: 19%

Structures Threatened: 7,390

[Jim Wilkins]

Can someone help me understand how this got away from firefighters?  It seems like people saw the smoke early and in the time lapse, if you frame by frame step though it you can see the early retardant drops before it was big.  It was also in a somewhat accessible area with paved roads nearby.  So, what happened?  Or what didn't happen?  Or was this a scenario where there was no chance to put it out regardless of cash outlay or personnel/vehicle placement?

The timing and location of it all sure seems intentional.

Joe-Pretty simple really....multiple starts meant the fire had a running start on firefighters.  Remember, even with full staffing, the start location is a long ways from anything.  Aircraft take time to get rolling and in the air.  The fire is burning in an area that has little or no fire history.....the fuels are dry or dead with bark beetle trees throughout.  The aircraft dropping retardant are laying a line down ahead of the fire with the goal of holding the fire until the crews can get in and build a fire line.  When a fire is raging as this one was in the beginning, the fire frequently just mows right over the line (or spots several miles ahead....starting a new fire)  Temperatures were in the nineties....terrain was steep and rugged and winds were gusting to 30mph.  It was not an accessible area for the most part and firefighters had to access it on foot.  Once the fire was established, the energy created and the terrain it was burning in dictated that you can't always put the human next to the fire line.  Flame lengths in excess of 100 feet as trees torched are not conducive to approaching the fire directly.  Several times, a Pyro-cumulus  cloud formed from the incredible energy and rose to 20,000 feet.  You have to pick and choose where you can make a stand.  The Incident Commander on the Lake Fire is a thirty veteran of the San Bernardino National Forest fire fighting operation and is familiar with the area fire history.  His command staff are all seasoned wildland firefighters.  I can tell you from personal experience that no IC wants a single firefighter or civilian to be killed on his watch.  In addition to the planning for the fire fight, planning for the safety of those living in the fire area is a constant thing.  Calling for an evacuation is not taken lightly.  So you rely on your Division Group Supervisors and your Ops folks to make good tactical decisions but not at the cost of putting crews in jeopardy.  You try and anticipate what the fire might do based on your knowledge of fire behavior and conditions.  You look for the places where you might make a stand (ridge tops....washes...etc).   This is a major wild fire that is burning during a record breaking drought in steep rugged terrain pushed by wind and slope and in some areas that have not burned for eighty years.  It will continue to burn until the combination of lack of fuel, wind, slope and terrain can be overwhelmed by the resources available for extinguishment.  Did they do a good job?  Of course they did and still are.  I've never worked on a wildland fire where the Command Team and the firefighters didn't give 110%.  My Incident Command Team is next up for assignment and the process will start over for us....somewhere in the West.  Hope that is helpful. 

[Wrightwood]

[Wrightwood]

[Wrightwood]

[Wrightwood]

Here is a progression map for the Lake Fire http://arcg.is/1GxaR7h

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe-Pretty simple really....Hope that is helpful.

Yes it is, and thanks for the response.  Do they staff based on geographic fire potential?  And by that I mean, now that a large portion of the area covered by the fire stations in that area has burned, I imagine the potential for fire in that coverage area will be greatly reduced for quite some time.  Once the fire has been mopped up will they shift staff and equipment away from there and to places with continued high fire danger/unburned forest and bring them back as the forest comes back?

What about Fire Station placement?  There's a long stretch of highway and a lot of forest with no fire station - 27 road miles between the two stations that bookend the stretch of road the fire started near.  If they were coming from Angelus Oaks, I imagine it would have taken 30 minutes to get there, maybe, based on Google Maps.  Based on how it played out, would it have even mattered if there was a station halfway between those two and people on foot got there in about half that time?

[Jim Wilkins]

Fire stations are fixed assets that are very expensive.  The stations will stay where they are because not everything is burned.  Many areas are hop scotched with unburned.  The Angelus Oaks station is a Paid/Call SB County fire station that staffs with local residents when they are available.  The federal stations will remain where they are and continue to respond to any number of emergency responses including medical aids and traffic collisions.  Unlike municipal stations, they are not staffed 24/7.  The crews go home each night unless conditions warrant staying open until 8 or 10 pm.  If a wild fire starts when the crews are off duty, they are recalled to the station.

Putting a staffed fire station between the two existing ones would be cost prohibitive.  Would a single engine crew have been able to stop the Lake fire in the beginning.....based on what I am hearing, no.  There was too much fire and too much fuels available that were ready to immediately burn.  The fire was crowning in some pretty big timber and spotting 1/2 mile ahead.  Because of the extreme conditions, US Forest Service dispatch had a heavy initial dispatch, including Air Attack, fixed wing and helicopters as well as bull dozers, hand crews and engines.  Remember....this is not their first fire season on the San Bernardino.  If you would like a glimpse of what fighting one of these fires is like, take a look at a PBS Documentary I did on the Panorama Fire in 1980.  At the time it was the largest fire on the San Bernardino NF and will give you a good picture of just how chaotic and crazy these things can get...especially in the wildland urban interface.
Panorama...San Bernardino under Siege https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABTulYftHkw