To rectify County Fire budget, supervisors eye parcel tax - FP-5

[KW]

I heard through the grapevine that the County MUST fund our services, and that this annexation and new tax is a money grab to try to fill holes in the County budget and fund pensions. Comments? Laws? Message me privately if you wish to remain anonymous.

[Elk]

I heard through the grapevine that the County MUST fund our services, and that this annexation and new tax is a money grab to try to fill holes in the County budget and fund pensions. Comments? Laws? Message me privately if you wish to remain anonymous.

Preface of my comments below... I am not an expert and like most people I am trying to figure this out and analyze this like everyone else.

"If" the county "must" fund our services regardless of the new tax being approved or not... I believe it will come down to the level of service provided. For instance, the county could provide service for the entire Tri-Community from just one fire station. Let's say it is Station 10 in Phelan (most centrally located to Tri-Community), this could lead to long delays in service especially if the equipment and crews have multiple calls at the same time. Are people willing to accept these delays which could potentially be lengthy in a "perfect storm" of multiple calls and limited resources.

The Board of Supervisors has been providing the additional funding to maintain the current levels of service but what if revenue does not support this level of funding in the future?

Is this a scare tactic to get people to succumb to their "ask" for more funding, paid for by additional taxes? Are we (the people) willing to accept this possibility of a lower level of service in the event that revenue limits the level of services the county is able to provide given the costs of operation?

In my opinion this is the multi-million dollar question.

[KW]

My source also mentioned that for Wrightwood (not the other areas being annexed) that Mountain High funds the local station to be staffed at its current levels. Does anyone know how to check this? And I'm going to say again, that I hate the idea of my taxes going up (especially at the same rate for vacant land with no need for services) if there are leaks in the budget that could be fixed, or bloated pension commitments that should be resolved. I would rather pay this type of tax for a local hospital district so we can have an emergency room and doctors nearby.

[thehallmarks]

If the FP-5 funds are "destined" to the cty general fund they can be used for any purpose they deem necessary!  If it is to make up the "short fall" in the pension programs they can do so.  The funds should be designed to a fund to be used for fire protection for the area assessed.

[tcaarabians]

[lwt42]

If the FP-5 funds are "destined" to the cty general fund they can be used for any purpose they deem necessary!  If it is to make up the "short fall" in the pension programs they can do so.  The funds should be designed to a fund to be used for fire protection for the area assessed.

Doesn't matter.

Remember the California Lottery?  We all voted for the Lottery to fund schools, and every dime of Lottery money goes to the schools.

... and while the state does spend money on Education, it would be spending a lot more if they didn't have the lottery money.

If the Fire Protection District gets their $26.9 million directly, that's $26.9 million that doesn't have to come from the County General Fund.

[lwt42]

As for Mountain High paying for the WW station - they can't be taxed higher. That said, they may have to pay other types of fees that help fund that station. You'd have to check the line-item budget to find it. Or, call someone in the Fire District and ask.

Mountain High can't be taxed by San Bernardino County at all.

It's in Los Angeles County.

The Chief did talk about how Ambulance Calls from Mountain High are transported by the ambulance from our fire station, and the ambulance fee is paid to the serving agency (SBCFPD).  The collected fees pay a good chunk of the cost of our ambulance and staff.

[Jim Wilkins]

If the FP-5 funds are "destined" to the cty general fund they can be used for any purpose they deem necessary!  If it is to make up the "short fall" in the pension programs they can do so.  The funds should be designed to a fund to be used for fire protection for the area assessed.

Hank....Do your due diligence.  The San Bernardino County Employees Retirement system is one of the best funded systems in the country and one of the highest rates of return for their investments.  Don't confuse our well run system with Calpers or city systems that diverted Employer Contributions to other things and now face shortfalls.  You're listening to too much John and Ken on KFI.  They hate all public employees.

[Jim Wilkins]

Hank....Do your due diligence.  The San Bernardino County Employees Retirement system is one of the best funded systems in the country and one of the highest rates of return for their investments.  Don't confuse our well run system with Calpers or city systems that diverted Employer Contributions to other things and now face shortfalls.  You're listening to too much John and Ken on KFI.  They hate all public employees.

Darn those short revise times.  What I thought I posted below.

If the FP-5 funds are "destined" to the cty general fund they can be used for any purpose they deem necessary!  If it is to make up the "short fall" in the pension programs they can do so.  The funds should be designed to a fund to be used for fire protection for the area assessed.

Hank/KW....Do your due diligence.  Where did you see that the County Fire has a pension shortfall?  (Disclaimer-I was a elected Trustee for SBCERA for 15 years)  The San Bernardino County Employees Retirement system is one of the best funded and best run systems in the country and one of the highest rates of return for their investments.  Don't confuse our well run system with Calpers or city systems that diverted Employer Contributions to other things and now face shortfalls like Stockon and San Bernardino City. 

The amazing part is I looked at my tax bills and there is no way to how much of my property tax is to pay for fire protection.  I pay $159 to the County General Fund on the Wrightwood (pre-Prop 13) house and several thousand on my current house but absolutely no way to know how much comes back from the county for Fire/Rescue and Paramedics.  That amount is always subject to change on the whims of the Board of Supervisors.

FYI-We have always billed for Ambulance service in Wrightwood.  When I started in 72 it was around $35 and now is much more to the hospitals.  In good years, we transport a lot of skiers and snow players and that can add up but Mountain High does not pay to have our station staffed.  The Department has a very vigorous and aggressive cost recovery program for those that don't pay and have had for a number of years.  I also believe we do not bill "SB County non-residents" for most emergency services (nor do LA or Riverside or San Diego counties) unless they result as a result a criminal act or outright neglect.  We have been good stewards of the taxpayers money and I can assure you that the first 25 years of my career was spent in stations that were outfitted with military surplus furniture and very little regard to creature comforts.  (The Phelan station was a single mobile home that was falling apart for years)  We don't have a fleet of multi-million dollar helicopters.   What we did stress was apparatus that working in our harsh and rugged environments.....Premier customer service....top quality patient care...aggressive firefighting and rescue and being there 24/7....in all kinds of weather and responding in minutes to any call for help.  Today's department still stresses those and more.  SBCOFD is now even better trained....better equipped and has such a multitude of services that add value to people's lives.

Am biased?  Yup. I know the level of service that we have now and I remember what we could deliver for a lot of years.  Now is definitely better.  I will not be sending in a protest for my properties.

[MTHIGHLVR]

I agree 100% with Jim Wilkins, we have way better service today. I too will not be sending in a protest.

[lwt42]

The amazing part is I looked at my tax bills and there is no way to how much of my property tax is to pay for fire protection.  I pay $159 to the County General Fund on the Wrightwood (pre-Prop 13) house and several thousand on my current house but absolutely no way to know how much comes back from the county for Fire/Rescue and Paramedics.  That amount is always subject to change on the whims of the Board of Supervisors.

I'm still trying to run all of the rules to ground, but exactly how the 1% general levy gets divided is a bigger mystery than it should be.

Because the SBCFPD is a (mostly) independent agency with the right to levy taxes, its' direct share of the levy appears to be set by the State Legislature.  Then there is a roughly $26 million chunk that varies from year to year that is completely at the whim of the Board of Supervisors.

I called the tax collectors' office and asked for a detailed accounting.  They said "no."

In an ideal world, the Board of Supervisors would honor their moral obligation and continue to fund the Fire Protection District.

In a just world, the Legislature would give the SBCFPD a bigger slice of the property tax pie (and take that percentage from the County's share, not from the other organizations who rely on property taxes).

But we don't live in an ideal world, or a just world.  The FP-5 annexation is the easiest way to do this in the world we live in.

[Jim Wilkins]

I am pretty disappointed in the County not being willing to share how our tax dollars are appropriated....but not surprised.  I came from a background where we pretty much shared what we could and if we didn't know we bumped folks up to someone that did know.

Here's what you tax dollars do when it's on the line.  Obviously the tax collector won't show you what they do 

https://www.facebook.com/SanBernardinoCountyFire/videos/243373063031469/

[ezzpete]

2 year old artical. Have things gotten better,worse. Maybe the artical is BS, I don't know,but it seems to be related.



http://inlandpolitics.com/blog/2016/11/28/san-bernardino-county-pension-system-shortfall-grows/

[KW]

Another interesting link. You can search by job title, or even by name. https://transparentcalifornia.com/

[Jim Wilkins]

2 year old artical. Have things gotten better,worse. Maybe the artical is BS, I don't know,but it seems to be related.

You are very astute.  The article is BS and a hit piece.  Actually the letters in response are the only factual thing about the article.  That site has been harsh critic of anything in any County or local City government...unions...government workers, etc. for years.  Pretty biased and in this case, pretty misinformed.  What it does point out is that you cannot count on the Board of Supervisors to fund their obligations if they don't want to.  There are three things that make up the income that funds the Retirement system.  1)  The County contribution   2) The Employee's contribution and the money made by prudently investing those two sources of  money in a diversified portfolio of investments that adds even more value.  It points out that the County didn't make their annual contribution for a number of years (while I was on the Board) because the fund was doing so well with investments.  Instead of adding their contributions, they spent it on other pet projects around the county.  The current rate of funding is substantially higher then the number they listed and our SBCERA is rated at the top of Employee retirement systems around the country. 

[KW]

Jim, you have just helped me make my point. "... They spent it on other pet projects around the county..."

As I previously wondered, where are the other holes in the budget? How has the money been handled? Was there something else that could have been done before coming to the tax payers for such a large increase? This tax will double my property taxes on my vacant lot, and will increase my home property taxes by 7%... And that's just the first year.

I fully support all fire departments and police and sheriff and am grateful for their valuable work. But I have a hard time with this new tax.

[lwt42]

[Cheapskate]

Quoting Jim Wilkins: "...the County didn't make their annual contribution for a number of years (while I was on the Board)"  My pay stub is simple to read; a left column that shows deductions from my salary for various categories including retirement ("my contribution"), and a right column showing what my employer paid into each category. A county employee's pay stub is similar, yes? Are you saying the amount shown in the employer column wasn't actually paid? (I somehow find that difficult to believe)

[ezzpete]

I'll be sending in my petition, and urge everyone to do the same.doesn't mean you have to vote no. Just seems like the fair thing to do. It's the American way, what's left of it anyway.

[tcaarabians]

I continue to have an internal debate of form over substance with myself. On the substance side, I'd pay more than the proposed $150+ to keep our fire dept. adequately funded. I think they do excellent and dangerous work. I'm very glad that they do it well.

On the form side of this debate, I'm really annoyed and p'od.  To call this an annexation is akin to a minnow swallowing a whale. See map back in this thread. (lwt42 - you caught that sleight-of-hand early in this discussion.) Whomever realized that they could circumvent the regs of Prop. 218 - via this method - earned his or her salary that day. The taxpayers that voted for annexation in the very, small existing FP-5 areas were a different ballgame. Using the value of the property to weight the ballots is also disingenuous. The fee is flat. The weight of the vote should be flat as well. Gee, thanks for the opportunity for the Chief to "weigh the support..." for the expansion .. um, err.. annexation.  This protest vote - it's form and it's substance - is not my idea of a transparent government.

My internal debate continues. But, I must now pay attention to the Fork Fire as well. Cheryl o7o