Person "selling" horses in Wrightwood???

[GARY]

In the words of my immortal hero, Col. Sherman Potter, CO, 4077 M.A.S.H.....HORSE FEATHERS!

[Surfer_Dude]

Nothing worse than a dirty horse trader or thief.  Too bad we can't put her in a time machine for a little frontier justice.

Here is the aforementioned forum link:
http://www.awhitehorse.com/horsesmouth/index.php?showtopic=9653&hl=wrightwood

[wwpt]

 
   After reading through the whitehorse forums, If what the buyers there are saying is accurate, I'm having a hard time believing that the D.A. refers to this as a civil matter.
 
   A contract in California must have 3 basic things in it to be legal and binding....an item, a price, and a date. ( and a signature).

  In other words, if I say I'm buying a Maytag Washer for $600 dollars on Oct 1st and instead I get a Whirlpool (or nothing at all)...well then that is a misrepresentation and seems it should fall under fraud.       
 
  Especially if it happens to more than a few people and shows a pattern of behaviour. People go to jail for Ponzi schemes and embezzlement, which is similar.
 
   Just curious, But why won't the County or state law pursue them in this matter? Or does this fall under the Federal statutes because it is interstate or internet?

[Wildman]

I agree internet horse buying can be risky. I too have bought horses via the internet and have been very lucky.

The thing with this seller...she is very good at what she does. She preys on people and is very convincing and sincere sounding. Please take a look at the awhitehorse forum and let me know what you think after reading some of the victims stories.

Jen

Risky?  Don't you mean foolhardy?  What do you mean you have been lucky buying horses on the Internet?  What horse person buys a living, breathing 1,500lb animal that could kill you if you make a mistake in handling or training or cost you thousands in vet bills and doesn't verify that the horse is sound by a visual inspection on site, that the horse looks and performs as advertised and a Vet check?  Are you insisting on seeing the horse and working it first....before you send off thousands of dollars; sight unseen? 

All con artists are convincing and sincere.  Are you sure this isn't a Nigerian scam?  They're now "selling" horse trailers on the Internet that don't exist (pictures taken from the Horsetrader) and people are sending them money left and right to get a deal that sounds too good to be true (and is)

I've read through the site and frankly, it's 120 pages of threads of people who knew better and a lot of unverified accusations.  The folks took their chances and got burned.  Kinda like knowing that if you run enough red lights, you will eventually get an expensive ticket or get dead from cross traffic.  Very sad and tragic stories but WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!   

I think we've all learned our lesson here.  First....never send hundreds/thousands of dollars to someone on the internet for a large animal that you haven't seen.  Second, the fact that this individual used to live in Wrightwood is old news and really not important (all kinds of scoundrels have come from Wrightwood)  Third, we all feel sorry for the victims but I also feel for the folks in Darfur.

[GARY]

Stories like this one, and all stories of animal abuse and victimization, infuriate me.

Scams like this are able to exist only because buyers want to save a buck.

[JKV]

Just curious, But why won't the County or state law pursue them in this matter? Or does this fall under the Federal statutes because it is interstate or internet?
[/quote]

The DA told me that he is considering each case individually and that in doing so it is a breach of contract. Does that help? Can't figure out why he wont lump them together.

Jen

[JKV]

Risky?  Don't you mean foolhardy?  What do you mean you have been lucky buying horses on the Internet?  What horse person buys a living, breathing 1,500lb animal that could kill you if you make a mistake in handling or training or cost you thousands in vet bills and doesn't verify that the horse is sound by a visual inspection on site, that the horse looks and performs as advertised and a Vet check?

.....Second, the fact that this individual used to live in Wrightwood is old news and really not important (all kinds of scoundrels have come from Wrightwood)  Third, we all feel sorry for the victims but I also feel for the folks in Darfur.[/quote]

Foolhardy, perhaps. Lucky I was. I bought slaughter-bound, ex-PMU's from an rancher in Alberta Canada. When all is said and done...I was blessed and  lucky.

As for Wrightwood, I  am curious if she is back if the neighborhood. Because of her previous animal cruelty/neglect charges I am concerned.

I am not asking you to feel sorry for the victims. They do take responsibility, but the bigger picture here is why has nothing been       done about  this woman by law enforcement?

Jen

[Wildman]

I'll repeat....."I think we've all learned our lesson here.  First....never send hundreds/thousands of dollars to someone on the internet for a large animal that you haven't seen."

Yeah, it's a cruel world out there.  Thanks for you concern about Wrightwood.  There are only three places where horses are kept in Wrightwood currently and all have healthy, well cared for animals.  No one else has property where horses are kept in our immediate area.  Good luck on your dogged quest for retribution.

[JKV]

I am sorry if I have somehow offended you. But something tells me                    no matter what anyone posts they are, in your eyes, imbecilic, obtuse, simple-minded fools.

I again am sorry for instigating your character.

Jen

[Wildman]

You don't offend me. You described your constituents that way, not me. 

Your crusade just amazes me.  Whatever happened to common sense?   

....I simply find the discussion moot.  Where can it possibly go?  We all sympathize with all of these maimed, deaf, disabled people who probably couldn't afford to lose any money (let alone properly care for a horse) were swindled out of thousands of dollars.  We all are amazed that there are such gullible people out there. 

There are few horses in Wrightwood.  You can count them on one hand.  There are not many people who would send hard earned money, sight unseen, to someone for something as big and hard to keep as a horse in Wrightwood.    You probably won't get many takers willing to go on private property and report back to you.  (are you even in this state?)

Everyone agrees that it is an injustice that the DA will not file charges but, so what.  The jails are so full that she would walk after doing 48 hours in this county because the crime did not involve bodily harm. 

Perhaps your postings will probably be more apt to draw the kind of responses you seek on Horse Rescue sites...

[JKV]

I did not describe my constituents that way. It was a generalization more directed at myself and your interpretation of my posts.

I am not sure Crusade is the best word for it. How about preventing new victims, helping those already victims, assisting law enforcement as needed, protecting horses? Maybe an educational resource?

Please though sir, do not attack, accuse or belittle the victims. That IS a moot point. If you need to vent about someone, how about the person mis-advertising horses, falsifying and stealing pedigrees, using reputable ranch names that are not in anyway affiliated with her? The woman that cashes checks and sends no horse, uses other people's names and fails to pay court-ordered judgments? And those that foster her? The woman that has kept starving and dying animals and offered no vet or farrier care to them. The woman that has falsified vet papers? Everything seems legit with her at first; Even the contracts. All of the above are documented.

I do not want to mud sling with you. I joined this forum to help, to notify your community, and to gather info for the victims.

I am boggled that you think that what this woman does is justifiable because the victims' should have known better. That is like saying all of the people in New Orleans deserved what they got with Katrina, because they should have known better than to live there. No, they had hoped it would never happen. But it did.

Another example would be if I entered a contract to board my horse and one day the farm managers packed up and left, taking the boarder's horses with them. As a boarder, and a victim am I to blame?

I want you all to know that I will remain a resource for you and whoever else might need  information and direction, but I do not feel a need to continue this particular debate.

Sincerely,

Jen

[kew]

Risky?  Don't you mean foolhardy?  What do you mean you have been lucky buying horses on the Internet?  What horse person buys a living, breathing 1,500lb animal that could kill you if you make a mistake in handling or training or cost you thousands in vet bills and doesn't verify that the horse is sound by a visual inspection on site, that the horse looks and performs as advertised and a Vet check?  Are you insisting on seeing the horse and working it first....before you send off thousands of dollars; sight unseen? 

I know very little about horses myself but I did talk to a friend about this issue. She's in her late 30's and has been around horses all her life. She told me she will go anywhere in the country for the right horse but there are several steps that MUST take place:

1: Do not allow an opportunity for bait and switch. Take your own trailer with you.

2: Have your vet meet you where you are buying the horse. If the horse is out of the area have YOUR VET recommend a local vet you can hire. NEVER let the seller pick the Vet.

3: After the Vet has put his stamp of approval on the horse, YOU saddle the horse (with your own saddle) and ride it. During the ride go through all the gaits.

4: You remove the saddle from the horse.

5: You put the horse in your trailer by yourself.

6: Pay for the horse.

If the seller objects to ANY of these steps, walk away with no further discussion.

[rdnckgrl78]

I know that our trainer would never purchase a horse without xrays and her vet confirming the horse is sound.

[Doglover]

JKV I feel as though you are getting a negative response from Wrightwoods residents. I for one think you are doing the right thing by notifying the people in this town that there could be a potential animal abuser amongst us. Yeah...the buyers should have used more common sense but that does not make light of what this lady has done. It needs to be known and if people just want to point out how stupid the victims are...well let them. They obviously have nothing better to do than to criticize your good intentions....

Its not about the human victims as far as I'm concerned because they really should have known better but it IS about the horse victims. If your posts can prevent more possible abuse then you are golden in my eyes!!

[JKV]

Thank you Doglover, for your kind words.

I did not take Wildman as the spokesperson for your community. As strange as this World is, most of us are kind, considerate and willing to help. Not make excuses, but take hold and learn, teach, and extrapolate prevention.

Sincerely,
Jen

[ChrisLynnet]

You go, girl! You and the many, many victims of the frauds this woman has perpetrated... and the innocent animals that she mistreats.

[Wildman]

Thank you Doglover, for your kind words.

I did not take Wildman as the spokesperson for your community. As strange as this World is, most of us are kind, considerate and willing to help. Not make excuses, but take hold and learn, teach, and extrapolate prevention.

Sincerely,
Jen

Now I looked a bunch of those words up and they just don't go together!

This just posted on the Whitehorse site....

"Hello Watchdog,

Actually that guy cracked me up. He is obviously in it for the "raising of hairs" thrill. LOL. No...I can debate with the best of them...he is insignificant.

Thank you for coming on here....you and your gang are warmly welcomed. I did see your site a few times, in some searches, but alas I figured you guys were the rogues. LOL! Well, time and history teach us the most no?

I will check your forum out.

And thank you for helping me to lick my "Wildman" induced cyber wounds.

Jen
(aka JKV)
(aka Jen)"

Jen writes from Minnesota and is a good debater.... especially when faced with those of us with limited vocabularies and knowledge of horses. 

[JKV]

I am in Minnesota. I am college educated, I am an Emergency Room RN. I own horses, my current horses are rescues. I am married and have children. Anything else?

All of the words in my previous posts [do] "go together."

Why on Earth would you engage me so vehemently if you have a "limited" knowledge base regarding horses? Or are you being sarcastic?

Never mind. I am done with you.

Jen

[Wildman]

"No...I can debate with the best of them...he is insignificant."

Yeah right.  Good luck on your quest of vengence.  You have made a lifelong friend on the other site.....You will be embraced warmly by the rogues as family.

[Jilly]

Wildman--what is up?  I usually respect what you have to say, but I'm not understanding the animosity that you're displaying in this situation.  I too read through the sites, and believe that their cause is just.  Granted there are stupid people out there that will make stupid decisions, such as buying a horse on the internet.  However, that doesn't excuse the criminal is who taking advantage of them and stealing their money.  Who is truly the bad guy here?  Not the ignorant person, but the cruel one.

I think that trying to stop the horse seller is a just cause, and sleuthing about Wrightwood would be a sensible place to request assistance.

Am I missing something?