Author Topic: Jackson Lake  (Read 65358 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lagomorphmom

  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #20 on: Jan 02, 07, 02:53:27 AM »
In fairness, if I grew up in the city especially where there is no snow (and had no common sense) and just came up for the day, I might be out there also if I saw other Lemmings doing it too.  I mean "it should be ok, if other people are doing it, right?" Especially at the shallow end by the reeds where it's really white and still some snow on top. I understand that there aren't any warning signs about thin ice (?), I wonder why. Have they just not been put up yet or is it not done there???

Offline BikingBrian

  • Bear
  • ****
  • Posts: 447
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #21 on: Jan 02, 07, 02:58:16 AM »
Recommended minimum ice thickness
4" of new clear ice is the minimum thickness for travel on foot

I assume Jackson Lake never gets ice that thick .... right?

KWBoy

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #22 on: Jan 02, 07, 02:59:21 AM »
I understand that there aren't any warning signs about thin ice (?), I wonder why. Have they just not been put up yet or is it not done there???

I was wondering if we could get the county or some one to make some and get a group to install them.

Offline Toolman

  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: 874
  • You can't fix stupid
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #23 on: Jan 02, 07, 03:03:33 AM »
I found this info online, from the Minnesota Dept of Natural Resources.  They should know a thing or two about ice safety:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/ice/index.html
--------------
Ice safety tips

Before venturing out on a frozen lake or pond keep in mind:

There is no such thing as 100 percent safe ice!

Recommended minimum ice thickness
4" of new clear ice is the minimum thickness for travel on foot
5" is minimum for snowmobiles and ATVs
8"- 12" for cars or small trucks

(Remember that these thicknesses are merely guidelines for new, clear, solid ice. Many factors other than thickness can cause ice to be unsafe.)
--------------

When we went motorcycle riding yesterday at 10AM, there was a marked CHP cruiser sitting by Jackson Lake  I'm assuming he was there to warn these highly intelligent folks of the dangers of the ice on the lake.

Darwinism at work...

Peace and stay warm and safe!

 The website doesn't mention underground water movement such as underground springs which the non fozen water is constantly moving. If there is sufficient underground spring activity, the ice is not secure and can cleavage from the below surface flow movement and contributing downforce of weight, ie: people cars, etc. I don't know the geololigical statistics of Jackson Lake but given the plentufull amounts of underground water movement this area has, I certainly wouldn't trust Jackson Lake. I wonder after all these years why simple cheap signs haven't been posted on the post's that exist surrounding the lake with nothing on them. ???

 

Offline TheSandman

  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #24 on: Jan 02, 07, 06:55:31 AM »
i wonder if they realize there is a small lake under them.

you've all found your ice skating rink.  have a fundraiser for a zamboni, sharpen your skates and let the fun begin.

Hillbillies

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #25 on: Jan 02, 07, 07:01:31 AM »
I am going to keep my mouth shut on this one.  I could really go off right now, but I think toolmans photos speak for themselves.....

Offline Surfer_Dude

  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2872
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #26 on: Jan 02, 07, 07:21:50 AM »


Bob McKenzie: Looks like all good stuff to me eh?   

Doug McKenzie: I did notice that most of those hosers didn't have proper toques on. 

Bob McKenzie: I give 'em all 5 minutes in the box for only bringing a twelve pack each.


Wildman

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #27 on: Jan 02, 07, 10:08:22 AM »
Trust me.  When one goes through the ice and disappears, the demeanor of the group will change dramatically for a moment.  By the time Patrol 101 arrives on scene, there will be new groups back out on the ice.  The lake has been signed in the past.  Unforturnately, there is always a language barrier and it is difficult to communicate the danger adequately to those present....let alone mount any kind of effective rescue.  A weekend spent there would be like watching 6 year olds play with loaded and cocked pistols.

Offline Mikeswave

  • Scrub Jay
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
  • Livin' Free and Easy
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #28 on: Jan 02, 07, 03:35:36 PM »
Its more like looking down a double barrel shotgun and saying nothing will happen. There is one pic of what 5 girls standing together thats alot of weight in one spot. That would make me nervous being there and seeing that.

Offline lagomorphmom

  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #29 on: Jan 02, 07, 04:37:00 PM »
Trust me.  When one goes through the ice and disappears, the demeanor of the group will change dramatically for a moment.  By the time Patrol 101 arrives on scene, there will be new groups back out on the ice.  The lake has been signed in the past.  Unforturnately, there is always a language barrier and it is difficult to communicate the danger adequately to those present....

Thanks, Wildman, I don't think it's funny either.  Sure, lots of them should know better, but I still think if you're not at least raised to see the dangers of lake ice on the news if not local to your home, it would be easy to assume that if it's 'frozen' that it's hard enough to walk on, especially if others are doing it as well. And before someone points fingers at particular parts of the world, I think the language barrier would also apply to people visiting from other parts of the world. I saw a lot of people possible from pacific rim countries. If I were visiting from say S. Korea where it's dang cold in the winter and didn't understand the weather here, maybe in that case, I might assume the ice was thicker than it is - or, maybe I would know better from experience, I don't know.

Everyone is smart when they've already know the answer. I'm not a big fan of multilingual signage, etc. but I think such public safety concerns are a good exception. Before someone remarks about them being stolen or defaced, well, that's too bad and the cost of doing business. I make jokes about Darwin, too, but in this case I also think of the rescue personnel that will have the vision forever of the frozen child that they pulled out of the lake.

If posted signage doesn't work, why can't we think smarter and come up with a different idea, after all who looks at the No Parking signs elsewhere anyway? What about those portable electric signs? A flashing sign like that would sure get my attention. Is there a model CHP or CalTrans could park at the lake that could at least flash the warning in english & spanish for starters? Just one thought. Now somebody else come up with another idea and let's see if we can effect some change for this problem. It's a small lake, it should be a small, preventable problem.

Breezymtns

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #30 on: Jan 02, 07, 04:55:11 PM »
There are signs at Jackson Lake warning of thin ice danger.  In my opinion they are too small (kind of like reading the small print).  I did mention I thought the signs needed to be larger... But then you get the song and dance that the signs are smaller as they are to be read while standing next to the lake not while driving by at 50+mph. 

Although, I am a firm believer of no matter what signage you use... blinking portable signs... etc most folks disreguard them or they figure they do not pertain to them.  I do speak to 1,000s of people about signs almost everyday & I am beginning to think that there are alot of people out there that are totally brain dead :(  What I am wondering most lately is... How do these people get through life?!?!?   I mean heck even when there are f.s. fire, leo's, county fire & SAR on PA systems telling folks to get off of the ice... they still totally ignore them!  I took videos of people sledding from way up on the mountain above Jackson Lake onto the lake on 12/31/06 .  I said to my husband "I'll bet these people think we are videoing them because we think they are cool... not because we think they are totally STUPID!"

Chesslike

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #31 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:09:49 PM »
When it comes to signage, you need to remember that over 10% of California's population is illiterate. Of the thousands who visit our forests every day, one it ten would not be able to read any type of sign.

Offline Wrightwood

  • Administrator
  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: Plenty of Posts!
  • Wildlife Gateway
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #32 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:24:11 PM »
I can't read the text but the picture sure makes a statement.


Offline Nolena

  • Moderator
  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: Plenty of Posts!
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #33 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:24:32 PM »
Is there a picture on the current sign?


Offline liz

  • Scrub Jay
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #34 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:33:31 PM »
I agree that we should have signs with universally readable pictures on them.  People who live in warmer climates have no experience with ice and think if you can step on it without it cracking, it is fine to walk on. We are more cautious because we know our winters here are freeze and thaw, but if we were in Minnesota and saw people skating or walking on a frozen lake, we would probably think it was safe also.

ezzpete

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #35 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:33:53 PM »
I never knew so many stupid people played on the ice at Jackson Lake.

looks like the same crowed of people who would shoot a gun in the air.

ezzpete

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #36 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:35:38 PM »
I can't read the text but the picture sure makes a statement.



the sign says "beware of zombies"

Breezymtns

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #37 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:39:55 PM »
Maybe we could use explosive devices every morning to break up the ice????
 ;D

Offline Nolena

  • Moderator
  • Raccoon
  • *****
  • Posts: Plenty of Posts!
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #38 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:41:23 PM »
That would make the fishing a whole lot easier.  ;)

Hillbillies

  • Guest
Re: Jackson Lake
« Reply #39 on: Jan 02, 07, 05:45:10 PM »
People who live in warmer climates have no experience with ice and think if you can step on it without it cracking, it is fine to walk on.


So with that being said, I guess we are to believe that an eskimo will unknowingly go skipping his way into a hot bed of molten lava!

Liz, I really admire your idealism that there is no such thing as a stupid person.... ::)