Author Topic: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire - 2016  (Read 880576 times)

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Offline tcaarabians

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #660 on: Aug 26, 16, 05:03:28 PM »
Years ago, Mom and I stopped at the rest stop on the old 66 that is being  discussed here.  We decided that the next time we drove though there.. we'd wet our pants instead.
cheryl o7o

Offline sagespirit

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #661 on: Aug 26, 16, 08:33:03 PM »
Jim Wilkins: thank you, many times over, for all your postings and helping people who want to learn, about the importance of evacuating, the character and movement of fire, administrative overview/action, and debriefing. As a former emergency response person on the ground, and administrator, who has been part of teams fighting too many kinds of disasters, I am continually amazed when people think they can "fight nature" in these circumstances. Your explanation of a crown fire, and mention that the fire temp is 1500 degrees was excellent. As a citizen, I will do everything I can to make sure people in my community who need assistance because they are unaware of the emergency, or due to disability or age, get out of harm's way.  But I have no patience with people who take up a first responder's time, energy, and focus by voluntarily or antagonistically getting in the way of the major task at hand.

I was very pleased to see that the Snowline School District acted so quickly to ensure that the safely of the students and staff were foremost at WW Elementary. It's my understanding the campus was completely vacated by 2:15pm. Hats off to Administration at all levels, and the teachers. Well done.

I am, however, deeply disturbed at the response of the SB Co Library who refused to release the employees of the WW Library until after WW was under mandatory evacuation...well after 4pm...and will be making a formal compliant to the agency and County about this matter. Both CERT team leaders, Patrick and Virginia Martin, and myself...and perhaps others, went to the library personally to make sure the librarians knew about the road closures and mandatory evac of W. Cajon Valley. I even stood and watched the Robin Cornett, Lead Librarian call down to administration to obtain permission to close down, or at least let one librarian who lives in Hesperia leave. Library Admin refused to let her go. I called down to the library two more times before I evacuated and still they were to remain on the job. This is deplorable.
The Director of the SB Co. Library needs to be called to task for this inappropriate and dangerous response and unnecessarily risking his employees lives. Librarians are non-essential personnel in these circumstances: they need to be protected. The proper procedure is to shut down the bldg so emergency responders do not have to be concerned about the personnel. At the same time the employees need to pack up, heed the mandatory evacuation order, and head for safety. When speaking of debriefing, hopefully this is an inter-agency venture.

As you know, Jim, you are doing a stellar job at educating the people who want to understand more by taking the time to post here. Again, thank you for your continued voice of reason and experience. Perhaps you could do some training for SB Co. Library administrative personnel and for other dept's whose employees are out in the field.  Respectfully submitted, Sagespirit

Offline Ranch Historian

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #662 on: Aug 27, 16, 04:42:56 PM »
Thank you to all who fought the Blue Cut Fire especially those in LPC.  My friend's son from Montana is one of those firefighters.  The Clyde Ranch is almost gone.  Only the big red house and the water station remain.  Rosalie's house is gone.  I just learned that yesterday. So much history in the Earp Cabin, the apple packing barn, the two out buildings.  The apple orchard was heavily damaged. Rips out the hearts of those who are related to Almon and Priscilla Clyde and those who are in Wrightwood. Thank you again all who fought that beast.

Offline EQC

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #663 on: Aug 27, 16, 05:56:44 PM »
Does anybody know the current status of Lone Pine Cyn Road?  The Inciweb site, last updated a few days ago, seems to imply that the bottom portion (toward swarthout and 138) was still closed.

Has it opened up so that we can leave town via Lone Pine and get to all the way to the 15?

Offline Mikeswave

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #664 on: Aug 27, 16, 06:02:53 PM »
It's open no problem

Offline ChrisLynnet

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #665 on: Aug 27, 16, 10:35:15 PM »
Various remarks to various people:
  • Wrightwood, thank you and your helpers for this amazing forum. I joined years ago and don't know what I'd do without it. 
  • Jim Wilkins, thank you so much for your expert input, I always appreciate you taking the time to post.
  • Sagespirit, you go girl -- I can't believe the library admin made that dangerous call! That's ridiculous.
  • My gay son and I refer to the Blue Cut area as Perv Alley. I don't care what your orientation is, that's just gross.

Offline RennMan

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #666 on: Aug 28, 16, 02:52:18 AM »
Definitely some woodsmoke in the air at home now.  Lark & Cedar above the village center.

Could be from the Bakersfield area incidents or the ones in Kern County, per the USFS BlueSky Runs:

http://viewer.smoke.airfire.org/run/standard/NAM84-0.15deg/current/

Offline sagespirit

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #667 on: Aug 28, 16, 03:53:58 AM »
Yes, RennMan, smell of smoke quite strong for almost an hour now, here at Spruce and Lark, to the point of affecting my eyes. Went to the link you suggested, but could not ascertain source of smoke. Tried looking up current hot spots for the Blue Cut Fire. I "trust" some are still burning. Could not find any infrared maps for this date. Are we smelling drift smoke? Or is something happening again locally? Thanks.

Offline Jim Wilkins

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #668 on: Aug 28, 16, 04:39:18 AM »
Couple things....we have just had a major fire that burned thousands of acres around us and right next to us.  The burned areas will stink like smoke for some time.  When the wind is favorable, you will smell the smoke stronger. Rennman listed some and the Santa Barbara fire is also still emitting smoke.  There is new fire near Lake Isbella, the Havilah Fire, that is ripping through ground that just started this afternoon.  That could be adding to the already smokey air.  When the smoke gets up into the upper atmosphere, it can travel hundreds of miles on the wind currents.  You will not find too many more or any infrared flight maps for the Blue Cut unless the Forest IC requests one.  They are used to ascertain perimeters and where the heat is so they can extinguish it during a working fire.

Yes, there still are humans out there rooting out things that are still burning.  They will take the last heat maps (the heat doesn't move much at this stage)  and go with a hand held infrared scope.  Also use a Mark 2 heat detector and feel the ashes with an ungloved hand.   These spots are less important deep within the burn area as the receptive fuel beds are ash now.  (Sidebar note During the fire, there was 100% receptivity- if a tiny ember landed on receptive fuels like grasses or dried leaves at the base of a tree-there would be 100% chance that a fire would start.)  One of the reasons Blue Cut raced around was that it could easily spot several miles ahead on an ember lifted up into the convection column.  My personal opinion is drift smoke that is carried down and in on the sea breeze.

My advice, maybe, is close the windows and pay a little extra for the AC if it troubles you. If you see something like billowing smoke or are just really concerned call 911.  The men and women who will respond and make sure there is no threat... do for a living.  The enjoy the opportunity to reassure those they protect.  Ask to have them stop by your house and share what they find.  That's what I would do.

Offline Joe Schmoe

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #669 on: Aug 28, 16, 09:04:08 AM »
When we went up LPC Thursday to survey the damage there was abundant ash getting blown around by the typical winds, and the area had a general smokey-looking haze.  I imagine you'll smell it until the first big rains.  On a side note, I can't believe the fire burned as much as it did after having burned just 7 years ago.  That's ominous.

There is new fire near Lake Isbella, the Havilah Fire,
And a fire in Havilah?!  C'mon!!....it is uncanny the number of places that have caught fire this year that we have been to.  I hope it doesn't do much damage.  Such a neat un-California area.  Cattle own portions of the road.  Quite the surprise to turn a blind corner and have to dodge a big bull.  Some history there too.
 
These are almost 10 years old now:





Offline tcaarabians

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #670 on: Aug 28, 16, 06:20:08 PM »
Just adding my thanks to all the Firefighters, police agencies and other groups that came to help.  And,  in particular, this Forum that was a communication life-line during the evacuation.  Every community in the US should have a Forum like this one.

Sagespirit:  I hope you do champion the librarians whose supervisor wouldn't allow them to leave. You know, librarians can be truly vicious when defending books.  It might be hard for them to challenge a supervisor.  So, an advocate is important.

And, best to all of you. This is a community standing strong.. thanks to the good work of a lot of folks. cheryl o7o


Offline Jim Wilkins

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #671 on: Aug 29, 16, 09:34:52 PM »
I've had lots of questions about how fighting these large wildland/Urban interface fire efforts work.  There's lots of moving parts. They were the same thirty six years ago when the Panorama Fire broke and destroyed much of San Bernardino's North end.  Here's a link to a program that aired on PBS back in 1981 about the Panorama Fire.  I had just happened to there in Fontana when this fire broke hope taping a retrospective on a 25 car collision in the fog on the new I 15.  I went over to get some stock footage....stayed the whole week and ended up spending a whole lot of weeks writing and editing.  Program shows the fire from inception....the target rich environment firefighters faced on arrival in a 90 mile at times Santa Ana and hundreds of shake shingle roof homes on fire.  It was challenge to write dialog the night before...edit and record and do it all over again.  By the time I was wrapping up, /Winter rains were causing flooding and mudslides.  It is certainly dated (I had dark hair and long sideburns) but still shows a reasonable idea of just how complex these devastating fires  are and how much goes into it.  Still are even more complicated with the drought and more development.  There is some amazing fire storm footage.       

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABTulYftHkw


Admin note:
Here's a link to the topic about the 26th anniversary of the Panorama Fire on Nov 24 2006.
The YouTube video link is much better quality than the reduced 31.2Meg movie of 2006

Offline james6000

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #672 on: Aug 30, 16, 02:07:19 AM »
New fire at the 138 /2?

Online Wrightwood

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #673 on: Aug 30, 16, 02:38:20 AM »
Inside the Blue Cut perimeter

Offline Mrs. Hillbilly

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #674 on: Aug 30, 16, 03:08:51 AM »
Inside the Blue Cut perimeter
Do your readers know where this is?

Online Wrightwood

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #675 on: Aug 30, 16, 03:25:21 AM »
08/29/2016 19:13  ANF-3645 OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION Wildfire 138 EAST OF HWY 2  34,27.204 x 117,39.72

dean.burdi

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #676 on: Aug 30, 16, 04:41:46 AM »
Any update on this new fire near 138 and the 2?

Online Wrightwood

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #677 on: Aug 30, 16, 04:56:52 AM »
There is no new fire near Hwy 138 and Hwy 2 and it was within the burn perimeter of the Blue Cut Fire. You should expect to see hot spots popup for days. There's still a lot of Fire Fighters continuing to mop-up the Blue Cut Fire. I drove Lone Pine Canyon this morning and saw at least 4 crew buggies of Hot Shots going to work.

Offline Jim Wilkins

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #678 on: Aug 30, 16, 02:36:51 PM »
During the Blue Cut Fire and most large fires, a pyrocumulus cloud may form overhead, rising up to 30,000 feet in the air.  They can be dangerous as the the rising hot air and moisture from the products of combustion will eventually fall, with erratic and heavy downdrafts that spread the fire.  Large embers can be drawn up into the sky and tossed miles ahead of the fire (on the Wallow Fire there was spotting five miles ahead of the main body from these massive clouds.) 

This is photo taken from my house in the second hour of the Blue Cut Fire.  The fire is moving a rapid rate and the combustion products are starting to rise up in the sky.  The "Pyrocumulus" portion is not well defined but would soon rise to over 20,000 feet.  This is last photo I took as we drove out with the horses.



These two pictures are from the Station Fire and are taken fairly early in the day.  These clouds were massive and would collapse several times as they built up and create downdrafts in every direction around the cloud.





This is a video that explains what these clouds are, how there are formed and why they can be dangerous. 

https://weather.com/tv/shows/weather-underground/video/pyrocumulus-clouds-explained?pl=pl-meteorology-explained


These pyrocumulus clouds can have a real negative effect on fire behavior once they get established. 

Online Wrightwood

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Re: Vegetation Fire I15 - Blue Cut Fire
« Reply #679 on: Aug 30, 16, 09:47:05 PM »
There have been a large number of dust devil sightings and reports today. Fire Fighters responding report that the dust devils have picked up ash from the Blue Cut Fire and appear to be smoke.