SOLAR TOUR SATURDAY 10/2

[LasPulgas]

[TableMtn]

A family member saw some stuff on t.v. that is solar panels that actually roll out and can be used as roofing material.  There are some desert developments that are going to use this material to have a whole subdivision with solar power.  So, some of the prices quoted on the tour are subject to change as there are new materials being developed as we speak. But what about the costs of relying on fossil fuels?  Dependence on foreign oil, huge air pollution costs from burning coal, land becoming ruined by salt water from natural gas mining....   I'm thinking of investing just to get off the grid and be more self sufficient.  

[LasPulgas]

[Wrightwood]

I've talked with Mt Hardware Mike a few times about his return on investment and he indicated that the current system will pay for itself in about 10 years.

If you're thinking about putting in a system to generate an income it isn't going to work. To be cost effective it needs to be looked at long range. To pay for Mike's system in a 10 year period seems like a smart move in my books.

I'm seeing plenty of uses for solar power popping up everywhere. Go into any garden center and look at how many walkway lights are now solar powered. There's outside night lights, house number lights, remote cell phone booths and the list goes on.

Could you completely get off the grid? Probably not at this point as we have too many modern conveniences that require large current demand. As technology continues to develop and prices drop it might be possible.

Speaking about new uses for solar energy: This summer we developed the first of it's kind solar powered wildlife live cam. The infrared camera and radio transmitter are located in a remote forest area where Edison power just wasn't an option. The camera is being used in the Bighorn Sheep Restoration project taking place in our San Gabriel Mountains.

Solar energy has allowed us to study daily habits of bighorn sheep without disturbing the environment. If you'd like to see more about our Wrightwood solar power project:
http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/bighorn/

This remote camera technology has been proposed for use on the Highway 39 Bighorn Sheep Study by Caltrans.

[Local]

Yes you can totally go off the grid with solar at least in Hawaii they do.
I think you could do it in Wrightwood also, It is expensive for start up. but when SCE Edison loses power, your lights are still on. i have friends that run cabinet shops off the grid!!!
Parker ranch uses solar mirrors and wind power to pump there water all over the ranch,(used to be the biggest privately owned ranch in the us.) they are saving like a 100,000 a year on electricity to pump the water
Local

[ezzpete]

my highest electricity bill is usually in the 30 something range, and a lot lower in the summer. how long would it take me to pay for the system?

[LasPulgas]

 Forever and a day!  

Just Kidding....  

Ask Naughty Pines.... He's a local who invested in one this year.

[wwjerry]

I only bought one cell and equipment to hook it up, it has been delayed due to abdominal surgery.
There are many internet sites with solar cells and equipment for sale. I delt with one in Victorville or Apple Valley. I'll check and post the name here in a few minutes.

NP
http://www.partsonsale.com/cabins.html


The initial expense isn't too cheap, I basically am setting up for 12 volt emergency lighting and 12 volt car radio for information and plan to expand to more solar cells.

[BikingBrian]

It's clear to me that solar has benefits where there's an unobstructed view. like at Mountain Hardware.  But has anyone looked into whether solar power is viable for a "typical" Wrightwood residence that may have more obstructions - say a single story on a 7200 sq ft lot with lots of tall trees?

[clint]

Not a hard question. If the sun doesn't shine on most of the panel, it will not produce enough voltage/current. And because solar cell panels are arranged in both series and parallel circuits,
to increase both voltage and current, if you block enough cells in the right/wrong way you increase the resistance of the cells and can limit current flow through an entire panel or part of a panel. So if you have a very shaded lot, it's not a good solution.

[SkierBob]

Maybe if you are truly independent and in the middle of nowhere, but it doesn't sound like you actually "get off the grid...." with the systems we saw up here, they are IN ADDITION to "the grid"...

 

Can one actually "get off the grid" up here if they install these systems?

Wrightwood?  Clint?  Anyone?  

You ain't gettin' off the grid without batteries... and a 5kw inverter

I see a lot of Trojan batteries used in solar applications

http://www.trojan-battery.com/

yep, they're expensive.. and they only last about 7 years.  Forklift batteries are a better choice and can last 40 years if properly maintained.

   

[SkierBob]

Not a hard question. If the sun doesn't shine on most of the panel, it will not produce enough voltage/current. And because solar cell panels are arranged in both series and parallel circuits,
to increase both voltage and current, if you block enough cells in the right/wrong way you increase the resistance of the cells and can limit current flow through an entire panel or part of a panel. So if you have a very shaded lot, it's not a good solution.

Say what?  I've never heard of such a thing actually being done.
 A watt is a watt regardless. 

[clint]

Yeah, but one single cell does not produce one watt. Solar cells work just like batteries. To increase the voltage you put cells in series. To increase the current you put cells in parallel. Not panels, but the individual cells in the panels. When you illuminate a single photovoltaic cell it produces 0.5 volts. When the cell is dark it's resistance increases so if you have 24 cells in a series circuit to produce 12 volts and you block light from one cell you are placing a resistance in your series circuit and reducing it's ability to pass current. To make a panel that produces 12 volts at several amps, you wire groups of 24 series cells together in parallel. But again if you block the sunlight from a bunch of these cells you dramatically increase circuit resistance and lose production.

Solar panels are so sensitive to having their light gathering ability optimized that in some systems they actually track the sun on a gimble much like a sunflower does. And if you notice the panels at Mt. Hardware, Mike changes the panel angle seasonally to optimize production. Even with no trees, no shade, no shadows, you need to keep the the sun striking the panel as close to straight on as possible. So he has two angle settings on the panels. A spring summer angle and fall winter angle.