Author Topic: Gas prices  (Read 23584 times)

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Offline Moose

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Gas prices
« on: Nov 10, 06, 07:43:17 PM »
Anyone notice that the price of gas at the pump started climbing today.  As I was getting gas in OC today at $2.39, the were changing the price on the maquee to $2.41.  I got back in the car and heard that the price of gas on the market fell over $1.00 today.  The price at the 76 station at the I15/138 was $2.59 I believe.

Interesting that now that the elections are over, the price is starting to climb again.  More and more people had predicted that this would happen.

Get ready for some more record profits by the oil companies.  The ones that are not making any money.....
Git-'Er-Dun

thevampy1

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10, 06, 11:29:10 PM »
Of course!  The oil companies have us.  Hopefully people will lose the fear over alternative fuel research so we don't have to be so dependent on oil.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #2 on: Nov 11, 06, 01:01:43 AM »
This article ran in todays Sun and seems to echo your thoughts thevampy:

Filmmaker discusses electric car heartbreaker
County employees hear about crushing death of GM's EV-1
SB Sun Andrew Silva, Staff Writer
11/10/2006

SAN BERNARDINO - No gas. No pollution. No noise. No maintenance.

Too good to be true?

For a few brief years starting in 1996, electric cars cruised the streets and freeways of California, their owners happily indifferent to fluctuating gas prices.

But in 2003, despite a 1990 state mandate to produce zero-emission vehicles to cut down on California's lung-searing smog, the plug on the experiment was pulled.

Filmmaker Chris Paine, who fell in love with his General Motors EV-1, was heartbroken when the carmaking giant confiscated and crushed hundreds of the pollution-free vehicles. The company refused to renew the vehicles' leases and wouldn't let customers purchase them.

"The ultimate sadness for us & (was) they took the cars off the road" and destroyed them, the 45-year-old Los Angeles resident told about 250 carpoolers Thursday. "They never had a chance to catch on."

Paine spoke at the annual luncheon for San Bernardino County government employees who share rides to work at least twice a week for six months.

His documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car," has charged a debate that already has plenty of juice as a result of recent record gas prices and increasing awareness

It's also garnered good reviews, plenty of media coverage and nearly $1.7 million.

"I think we've seeped the message into the mainstream," said.

His murder mystery includes an array of suspects, from the car companies, to the oil companies, to consumers, to the still-far-off promise of hydrogen-fueled vehicles.

But timing was a big factor, too.

Gas was cheap for more than a decade as Americans fell in love with big SUVs and pickup trucks, and global warming wasn't really on the radar, said.

If California's mandate had been issued five or six years later, the cars might have taken off, given current worries over oil prices and effects on the planet from burning fossil fuels.

Witness the current popularity of hybrid vehicles, which use both gasoline and electricity, plus media reports that GM will unveil a prototype of a new electric vehicle next year.

"People need to embrace new technology," Paine said.

The slams against electric cars - limited range, slow development of battery technology and weak demand despite the almost religious zeal among those who leased them - can all be overcome, he argued.

Most car trips are for short runs and for commuting. And most commuting is well within the range of a battery charge, he said.

He estimated electric cars could easily replace 25 percent of current vehicles.

"They're really amazing," he said.

The DVD version of "Who Killed the Electric Car" comes out this month.

KWBoy

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11, 06, 06:24:36 AM »
We just got it down to $40 a tank of gas... Looks like were going have to take out that extra 20 doller bill again for every fill up  >:(

hill okie

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #4 on: Nov 11, 06, 03:51:20 PM »
Nationalize the oil companies! >:(

Offline Leftfield

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #5 on: Nov 11, 06, 05:59:45 PM »
I dont know about nationalizing the industry but when they own everything from the equipment from the pumps in the oil fields to the pumps at the station, the "free" market is almost non-existent. 

gypsywolf

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #6 on: Nov 11, 06, 06:41:47 PM »
No surprise gas prices are going back up. I was fully expecting it once the elections were over. When it comes to politics, I am the ultimate cynic. ::)

Freighthauler

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #7 on: Nov 11, 06, 09:54:30 PM »
Prices went up because the dems took both houses of congress. ....lol
Actually it's because of maintenance. (did I spell that right?).
Thats according to the news I heard on the radio. As long as a barrel remains at about 60 bucks, it should go down again after maintenance.  It gone as low as 57 bucks.


As for nationalizing it.....Do you really want a Pemex on this side of the border....lol

kew

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #8 on: Nov 11, 06, 10:59:35 PM »
We are entering the Holiday Season so of course the price is going up.

As to nationalizing the industry: Can you name one thing, in the last 50 years, that the government has gotten involved in, regardless of which party was in charge, that they didn't screwed up? Our national leadership is a sorry lot and you want them to be incharge of yet another part of our lives?

We will never have control of gas prices until we stop using oil products 1 day a week. The not buying one day a week idea will have no effect on the oil company's profits but not using oil products 1 day a week would have a great effect.

Offline Surfer_Dude

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Offline Nolena

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Gas Prices
« Reply #10 on: Dec 04, 08, 12:10:54 AM »
I filled up in Phelan for $1.81/gallon.  :2thumbsup:

kew

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Re: Gas Prices
« Reply #11 on: Dec 04, 08, 12:30:12 AM »
Costco in Victorville $1.76

Chesslike

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Re: Gas Prices
« Reply #12 on: Dec 04, 08, 01:21:57 AM »
Valero station in Independence, MO $1.33

Though you might lose a little of your tank fill-up savings on the drive. ;)

Offline Nolena

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Re: Gas Prices
« Reply #13 on: Dec 04, 08, 01:29:11 AM »
Here's some interesting info.:

http://www.sanbernardinogasprices.com/

Offline lagomorphmom

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #14 on: Jan 02, 13, 11:44:41 PM »
Location looms large in pump prices at California gas stations
Known in the industry as zone pricing, the practice helps explain the wild swings in price any gasoline brand has from one location to the next.


By Ronald D. White, Los Angeles Times

January 1, 2013, 6:04 p.m.

Record gasoline prices in 2012 and calls for investigation of California's fuel markets have brought into focus a persistent peculiarity of the state's service station world: the wild swings in price any brand has from one location to the next.

Known in the industry as zone pricing, the controversial practice was apparent one afternoon when Culver City resident Michael Denis, on a jaunt to downtown Los Angeles, stopped at a Chevron station to feed his Fiat 500 some gasoline at $4.69 a gallon.

About four miles away, Lupe Alfaro was filling her Toyota Camry with Chevron gasoline but was paying $3.89 a gallon.

The two motorists were buying the same grade of gasoline, which more than likely came from the same refinery in El Segundo. Yet the prices they paid differed by 80 cents a gallon, or by more than $10 to fill an average 13-gallon tank.

"Hey, I'm trying to have a fun day here," Denis mock-groused when told about the savings that Alfaro enjoyed.

Denis' and Alfaro's different price experiences came about because fuel refiners charge unequal amounts to service station dealers in separate areas based on a host of closely guarded factors, such as nearby competition, traffic volume and station amenities.

Such price strategies aren't common in other retail businesses. When buying a sweater from a department store, for instance, a shopper can expect to pay the same price at the chain's other stores in a region.

In fuel retailing, however, "location can affect prices," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst for the Oil Price Information Service in New Jersey. "If you have few competitors and are near an airport or a rail terminal, you can price more aggressively."

But consumer advocates say the practice hurts drivers who don't always have the time and information to shop for the best deal.

"They call it zone pricing. We call it redlining," said Charles Langley of the Utility Consumers' Action Network in San Diego.

"It's just another way of trying to prevent the kind of price wars that can reduce costs for consumers," he said. "It also allows refiners to control the amount of profit stations owners can have."

Most of the cost that motorists pay is determined well before the fuel gets to the pump.

The main component in retail gasoline prices is the cost of oil, which is determined on world markets. The California Energy Commission estimates that oil constitutes nearly 60% of the state's average gasoline price at recent prices. Taxes and fees add about 63 cents a gallon, or about 15%.

The rest is made up primarily of the costs and profits from refining, distribution and marketing. Service station profits usually run a few cents per gallon.

Zone pricing figures in at the point at which refiners are deciding what price to charge service station operators, who are often independent businesspeople.

In an industry in which price isn't regulated, refiners or the middlemen who sell fuel to service stations can dictate the price that the financial microclimate can bear. The size of the zones and the amount to charge is determined by a complex collection of factors that varies from brand to brand, and the details are kept secret.

Refiners say they price their gasoline this way on a wholesale basis to better compete with rivals, and that station owners ultimately set the street price.

Tupper Hull, a spokesman for the Western States Petroleum Assn., an oil industry trade group, said he couldn't discuss any brand's marketing strategy. But, he said, zone pricing can benefit consumers in some cases.

"Some station owners are looking for the highest volume they can achieve in sales, and those stations are always competitive," Hull said. "Other stations are going less for volume but more for brand loyalty, to capture motorists who aren't interested in driving around to look for different options."

Zone pricing has withstood numerous investigations by government agencies and lawsuits by station owners.

One of the latest involves Arco dealers who are suing BP, Arco's parent company, in part over a pricing system that they say enables the refiner to exert enough control to maximize profit for the big oil company while restricting Arco station operators to scant earnings.

Plaintiff Amin Salkhi, who runs two Arcos and 13 other service stations in the Bay Area, said BP and other refiners exert control over the street price through wholesale pricing to dealers.

An example, he said, is that when prices surge, dealers are forced to raise their prices more slowly than necessary to make a profit as a way to blunt the shock to motorists. Then, he said, dealers are required to lower prices even more slowly well after the price spike has passed to recapture profits lost as prices rose.


"When prices are going up, BP may lose a few pennies," Salkhi said, "but on the way down, their profit is extremely rich."


In a response filed in August in Los Angeles Superior Court, BP issued a general denial of "each and every material allegation," including illegal price manipulation.

Zone pricing is particularly widespread in California because drivers in the state are extremely brand loyal, Kloza of the Oil Price Information Service said.

"The rest of the country has been gravitating away from the sense that there is anything special about a particular brand of gasoline," Kloza said. "But if there is one place where brand still means something, it's California."

Such brand loyalty was on display at the intersection of North Figueroa Street and West Avenue 26, where Alfaro had chosen the $3.89-a-gallon Chevron gas even through fuel was less expensive at three other stations.

A 76 brand station on the opposite corner was 2 cents cheaper per gallon, a Valero on the northeast corner was 4 cents cheaper and a USA station on the southwest corner was 12 cents cheaper.

Brand was heavily at work in the mind of Alfaro, who had a ready explanation for why she was willing to buy at the highest-priced station when she filled up.

Chevron stations "like this one are well kept, clean. You feel safe stopping there," she said, adding that she was unfamiliar with the USA and Valero brands of gasoline and that the 76 station "looked a little run-down."

Other Chevron customers had similar reasons for paying the intersection's highest price: They used Chevron credit cards; they trusted the brand; they believed that the Techron detergent additive helped their cars run better.

Denis, a paralegal from Culver City, said he found himself at the $4.69-a-gallon Chevron station even though he frequently uses the GasBuddy app on his Android phone to shop around for fuel. This time he couldn't find anywhere to pull over and didn't want to risk a ticket for using his phone while driving, he said.

Running out of gas also didn't seem like a good option, Denis said. And without smartphone assistance or any other service stations in sight, he opted for the expensive West Olympic Boulevard Chevron.

"I don't get downtown much," he said. "This is not something I want to think about every time I get into my car, but it will probably pay to plan more before I make excursions."

ron.white@latimes.com

Offline tcaarabians

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #15 on: Jan 03, 13, 12:44:15 AM »
And, now we have the "E-15" gas warnings.  I can send that to someone that can post it here.. I still have not learned how to do that. cheryl o7o

Offline Moose

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #16 on: Jan 03, 13, 02:08:34 AM »
I am over in Arizona (Bullhead City area) and the gas prices are 2.89.  Can't wait to come back to CA to pay .60 more per gallon. 

Offline Cheapskate

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #17 on: Jan 03, 13, 04:03:14 PM »
Regarding the part of the article in bold:  I suppose that I should see the fact that prices drop slowly as illegal manipulation and outrageous, obscene profit taking on the part of the oil company.

But to me it looks more like the gas station owner trying to minimize loss in an extremely competitive marketplace.  When the station fills its reservoir tanks at the peak of the price spike, what are they supposed after?  Not only do they sell it at a loss, they sell it more slowly because their customers switch to their competitor who filled his reservoir AFTER the price spike and can therefore be a few pennies cheaper.

Offline Wrightwood

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #18 on: Nov 20, 14, 04:39:04 PM »
Yesterday at Costco Victorville


sharyn

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Re: Gas prices
« Reply #19 on: Nov 20, 14, 05:11:53 PM »
$2.85 at the station in Pearblossom on Monday. :)